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Server Time: 10/11/2008 12:52:36 PM PACIFIC |
 It's so nice to play with better players, beigs, 6. Jul 2003 04:55 | ||
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| I had been reading that it is almost easier to play against good players than it is to play against bad players. Now, I'm convinced that's true. The Planet Poker 10K Limit tourney was the most fun I've had playing poker yet. The players who play any two cards busted out really early. It was easy to spot the players who knew what they were doing. It was the first time I'd seen the betting capped pre-flop, like Lee Jones predicted. I was able to steal blinds from late position. I was able to correctly get away from good hands, knowing I was beat by the EP raiser. I finished 8th out of 107 before having pocket 10s cracked by pocket Jacks. I think I'm officially hooked on this silly game. Have you all had as productive a weekend. Take care, Beigs | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, psuasskicker, 6. Jul 2003 05:33 | ||
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| I think it's true that it's more fun, because to me it's more intellectually stimulating to play with better players than the guys that play anything. I hate getting busted up when I make the bet 10x the blind in NL hold'em with pocket Queens and get called by some moron with K5o and he catches to kick my rear. But easier? Not at all. The fish are what make the game so profitable. That same fool that catches with the K5o is the guy that pays me off on a regular basis because he's calling those big bets with the crappy hands. They pay out much better. Are you gonna get knocked around? Occassionally, yes someone will suck-out draw on you. But those suck-out drawers are gonna pay you off a LOT more than they'll beat you, and the paydays you'll get are just gonna drastically exceed the payments made by the guys that are good players. Good players do well against other solid players. But the really good players can adjust their game to maximize profits from anyone. And there's no better way to maximize profits than to be in a game filled with people willing to call bets with crap, hoping they're gonna catch. - C - | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, 4 POKER, 6. Jul 2003 05:55 | ||
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| Why would you want to play in games against better players? Don't you want to be better than all of your opponents, or at least most of them anyway? (favorite) To be able to show a signifigant profit for long term results, you must chose to play in games where YOU are the better player....not them. Even though a really bad player may put tougher/crazy beats on you, in the long run........those are the players that ADD to your earn, not extract from it. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, Carl Heydman, 6. Jul 2003 11:39 | ||
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| Beigs, did you mean better players then you, or just better player in general. I too enjoy myself without loose player. It's a mental thing, me against them. But for money, give me the chasers anyday. But I go on tilt with chasers. My two kings get beat out by 3 3 3, and I see all this money being exchanged with a pair of 5s, I start go in more pots and starting with maginal hands. Better players, good players, bring me back to the earth, hopefully if I don't crash out at the loose table. | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, PokerDude, 6. Jul 2003 12:51 | ||
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| You learn more from playing with better competition than yourself, than you do with playing with people worse than yourself. IMHO =) Officially Licensed Dude | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, cold_cash, 6. Jul 2003 21:14 | ||
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| I was going to say this but you beat me to it... :P | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, Swagman, 6. Jul 2003 17:15 | ||
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| I think beigs was just pleased to see and recognize superior play. And all that he read in books made him feel a little more comfortable in the tournament. And unpredictable, unreliable poor player can spell disaster for you in a tight structured NL event. I feel the same way in some tournaments. Ideally I'd like the trash removed early on in a tourney and then come back at the final table, but that's not likely ever gonna happen. | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, Wren, 8. Jul 2003 10:36 | ||
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| Amen. It always amazes me when people loudly complain about bad players at the table. Why????!!! Hello....do you think you're going to make more money against the GOOD players?!! The other day, for example, playing a low limit HE game on UB. There was one heavy donator who played any two, and stuck around if he caught ANYTHING on the flop (and often even when he didn't). He was getting lucky and had doubled his buy-in. Another player kept criticizing his play & calling him a lucky bastard. Eventually the other guy left. I then chastized loudmouth a bit for being a dick, and he came back with "You should thank me! He was taking all the money!!" IDIOT. But I do know what Beigs is saying...playing with good players, especially in a tournament, can be very exciting and intense, and a great learning experience. Strategically bluffing & rebluffing, trying to figure out what your opponent thinks you think he has, etc. etc. Against bad players, a lot of advanced strategy & thought process isn't called for because these guys simply aren't thinking :) on 6. Jul 2003 05:55 4 POKER wrote: > Why would you want to play in games against better players? > > Don't you want to be better than all of your opponents, or at least most of them > anyway? (favorite) > > To be able to show a signifigant profit for long term results, you must chose to > play in games where YOU are the better player....not them. > > Even though a really bad player may put tougher/crazy beats on you, in the long > run........those are the players that ADD to your earn, not extract from it. > > > 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, MozMan, 6. Jul 2003 12:04 | ||
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| Hey beigs- I know what you mean. Playing with better players is more predictable. You know what they are doing most of the times. At least, if there was a lot of pre-flop action and the board comes 772, you don't have to worry that one of them called half his stack with 72o! :) I prefer to have some bad players at the table, especially in ring games, because they will, and do, pay off eventually. Sometimes, tho, I try to find some players that I think may be better than me because it forces me to step up and improve to beat them at the game. I can usually learn something valuable from the experience of playing with better players; particularly, I will usually learn how to adjust my game to beat them... so my attitude is, I'll step in where someone else may be the better player, but I'm doing everything in my power to leave where I am the better player... and he helped me do it. -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, stdioh, 6. Jul 2003 15:52 | ||
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| My favourite opponents are "dedicated newbies" ... players who know just enough to be totally predictable without being at all creative. Basically I want to play a full table of 19 year olds who have all read only Lee Jones and nothing else and have each played twice before. I'll take that over a total aquarium any six ways to breakfast. | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, Schuster, 7. Jul 2003 13:27 | ||
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| I'm with you on this one 100%. I find that I do better with a table full of people who won't chase monster long draws because I can make a lot more value bets at the river when I can at least have an idea of what people are holding. I'd never value bet an underpair against total fish, but have done it plenty of times against the types of players you describe. Lee | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, Snorbolus, 6. Jul 2003 17:45 | ||
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| Hey Beigs, Did you make it to the Sun this weekend? If so how did you do? What did you think of the games and of the card room there? Congrats on placeing high in the Planet tourney, Snorbolus on 6. Jul 2003 04:55 beigs wrote: > > I had been reading that it is almost easier to play against good players than > it is to play against bad players. Now, I'm convinced that's true. > > The Planet Poker 10K Limit tourney was the most fun I've had playing poker yet. > The players who play any two cards busted out really early. It was easy to > spot the players who knew what they were doing. It was the first time I'd seen > the betting capped pre-flop, like Lee Jones predicted. I was able to steal > blinds from late position. I was able to correctly get away from good hands, > knowing I was beat by the EP raiser. I finished 8th out of 107 before having > pocket 10s cracked by pocket Jacks. I think I'm officially hooked on this silly > game. > > Have you all had as productive a weekend. Take care, > Beigs | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, beigs, 6. Jul 2003 20:29 | ||
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| I did make it out to the Sun today. It's a very nice room. And smoke free. Doubly nice. Lots of tables with lots of games and limits. More than I'd ever seen before. And lots of players with less experience than me. Not that it benefited me any... A furthur illustration of the point I was trying to make. I was playing 1-3 Hold 'Em. There's no small bet or big betting levels. You can bet anywhere from 1 to 3 bucks. That took some getting used to. But what took more getting used to was that half the table admitted to playing for the first time. They'd been watching the Travel channel and decided to take their crack at the game. I know that, in the long run, these people would pay me off. But I found myself in a very undisciplined mode . Fortunately, I had to leave before I continued that trend (I promise, next time I'll represent the UPF better). You find yourself limping in with KXs when you know that the other players are staying in with 72o because they don't know any better. Of course, I should know better. But I digress. It was such a strange game that the one other 'regular' player at the table called to the river with poket fives and a guy betting heavily into a flop that showed a pair of nines. Needless to say, the 'regular' player rivered a 5 and his 5 full of 9s beat the bettor's three nines. It was a strange day, but a learning experience. Play tight against people who don't know any better. It's impossible to read their hands when they raise with bottom pair. I like playing with players that are more predictable. It was much more fun to play creatively. I found myself struggling to let go of weak hands because of the urge to see what the first timers had. My brain was hurting after an hour. Chalk up today to my rookie lack of discipline. Must play better next time. on 6. Jul 2003 17:45 Snorbolus wrote: > Hey Beigs, > > Did you make it to the Sun this weekend? If so how did you do? What did you think of > the games and of the card room there? > > Congrats on placeing high in the Planet tourney, > > Snorbolus > > on 6. Jul 2003 04:55 beigs wrote: > > > > I had been reading that it is almost easier to play against good players than > > it is to play against bad players. Now, I'm convinced that's true. > > > > The Planet Poker 10K Limit tourney was the most fun I've had playing poker yet. > > The players who play any two cards busted out really early. It was easy to > > spot the players who knew what they were doing. It was the first time I'd seen > > the betting capped pre-flop, like Lee Jones predicted. I was able to steal > > blinds from late position. I was able to correctly get away from good hands, > > knowing I was beat by the EP raiser. I finished 8th out of 107 before having > > pocket 10s cracked by pocket Jacks. I think I'm officially hooked on this silly > > > game. > > > > Have you all had as productive a weekend. Take care, > > Beigs | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, Snorbolus, 7. Jul 2003 05:48 | ||
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| Hello Beigs, I am glad that you made it to Mohegan on the weekend. I have always enjoyed playing there. For what they are worth, my 2 cents about playing against bad players: I think that it is a mistake to write off bad play as unreadable. Even bad players do things for a reason. They are not stupid, just inexperienced about poker. To my mind the most interesting aspect about poker is trying to figure out what and how my opponents are thinking. If you read a lot of poker theory you will pick up many good plays for a lot of different situations. This is all great stuff and it will help your game tremendously. Also, if you understand why such plays are good, thinking about them will help you to design others, of your own. BUT many players who you will meet don't know or care about established poker theory. This does not mean that their poker decisions are random, just that you will have to work a little harder to understand them and to spot the patterns. I very much enjoy the social aspect of playing poker. I like to talk to, think about and try to understand my opponents. If you spend your time at the table thinking "I am so much better at poker than these other players. All of my plays are in accordance with published poker theory and almost none of theirs are", of course you will have trouble reading your opponents. Furthermore you will miss out on what is, in my opinion, one of the best aspects of the game. Even bad poker players (maybe especially), are often witty, intelligent people who it can be a pleasure to spend time with. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, mroban, 7. Jul 2003 11:36 | ||
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| Hey Snorbulus, I think we played some $1-2 this weekend at UB. I am FulltiltBoogy. Were you in that Maniac room on Saturday night? Talking about playing against fish! I was down $80 (getting cracked runner, runner on 3 big hands at least) and ended up $100 on the evening. Crazy stuff. But it does show that playing against the fishies pays off huge if you can just stand in there while they are drawing out and getting lucky. Key for me is not going on tilt early. | ||
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| Re: It's so nice to play with better players, Snorbolus, 7. Jul 2003 12:42 | ||
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| Hello Mroban, No that wasn't me. I don't have an internet connection that I can use to play online for real money. Maby someday. Good comeback at a $1-2 table though. Snorbolus on 7. Jul 2003 11:36 mroban wrote: > Hey Snorbulus, I think we played some $1-2 this weekend at UB. I am FulltiltBoogy. Were > you in that Maniac room on Saturday night? Talking about playing against fish! I was > down $80 (getting cracked runner, runner on 3 big hands at least) and ended up $100 on the > evening. Crazy stuff. > > But it does show that playing against the fishies pays off huge if you can just stand in > there while they are drawing out and getting lucky. Key for me is not going on tilt > early. | ||
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