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Server Time: 11/21/2008 5:47:34 PM PACIFIC |
 Dealing w/ crazy raisers, DJpoker, 5. Jul 2003 01:49 | ||
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| Playing 3-6 HE. everyone wants to switch to 4-8 (i wasn't thrilled). A new player comes in and raises every pre-flop blind. Basically costs 8-16 bucks to see every flop. Now I know if I play smart cards I should be able to overcome this nonsense, but if you miss just a few flops, you take a big hit. I left and was happy with my little payday. How do you guys usually deal with this? I wasn't in the mood for big flucuations. Thanks, DJpoker | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, Swagman, 5. Jul 2003 02:42 | ||
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| Well an approach of not attributing craziness are non-sense to his or her actions would help to start with. This person probably saw a light game and realized what a pre-flop raise would create from the rest of this table, and evidently it worked well on you. His non-sense and craziness as you described it was a severe miscalculation on your part to make a very lucretive poker session. Let's start by thinking about some of these possibilities. what would insue if you where quarenteed a chance of making every flop a 2-bet? What would happen if you had players that were willing to play? Or what would happen if these so called loose raiser was the only one that wanted to play with you? Hmm this guy is my dream date, sorry you didn't see it the same way. | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, 4 POKER, 5. Jul 2003 02:45 | ||
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| I think your position will play an even bigger part when deciding which type of hands will be more playable against a raise (even a blind raise) becaue you're going to have to take into consideration how many players are still left to act. Not that position was ever taking a back seat to those factors before, I'm just saying that a hand that you may normally call one bet with may or may not be a hand that you would necessarily call 2 bets with. It really does depend on the table in which you're playing at. Are the other players relatively loose or are they more of the solid types or is the table generally passive? If you take into account the texture of all the players involved and find that you were pretty much able to hold your own there...then I wouldn't be affected that much when it came to playing my own game. You may want to fold more of the drawing hands (like the smaller suited connectors) because the value of them may go down a bit if and when you're faced with a raise by the crazy raiser and are out of position to make the call. If the game is pretty tight, than any hand that you would normally call a raise with, you may want to reraise this hand now if this crazy raiser has raised his hand blind in front of you. But not to go overboard, I'm not talking about the J-10, 5-5 starters, I'm referring more to the A-10 suited cards and the K-Q suited types of hands. If you are going to call a raise with these hands anyway, then if you are given the opportunity to isolate this guy, than that may give you a better chance. Big cards play much better in a heads up situation than the really small pairs and/or smaller suited connectors do, so just use your own smart thinking as to which hands you will now fold when faced with a raise and which hands you may now decide to play a little harder. You will be able to isolate more if you have good position over him and if you tend to play more of the premium hands (tight poker), then having this guy on either side of you may help you to achieve a heads up situation more often.But like I said, you should take into account how loose, passive etc. the others are as well. If you are still having some trouble dealing with this crazy raiser and are the least bit affected by him, then seriously consider changing tables and wait for a better situation that suits and/or meets your own needs to achieve positive ($) results. All in all......if you play good poker and understand the value/strength of hands and are not commiting too much/often with the lesser holdings (small pairs and such), then you should be okay anyway.........regardless of the "Crazy Raiser" in your game. With only getting dealt 2 cards, whos hand would you rather be holding, the hand that you looked at and called or 3 betted this guy with, or the hand that he holds and raises it without ever bothering to look at it at all? Hmmm, even though it may be true that "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then"....I'd still prefer to play my hands with my eyes open. Use this to your advantage 'cause trust me, he's the underdog here, not you. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, DJpoker, 5. Jul 2003 02:55 | ||
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| Thanks for the suggestions. Swagman, normally I agree with you that this guy is a dream, but we had 3-4 people calling every raise (7 handed game) and I was a bit tired. SHould be asleep right now actually. ANyway, 4poker, good observations. I did immediately feel like something went up my arse as I battened down the hatches. I think the biggest concern I had was my concentration level and as has been noted in this forum, if you can't stay focused get out. I will utilize your guys' suggestions the next time. Thanks and have a great night. | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 09:43 | ||
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| When you have good hands, reraise him to isolate him. When you have marginal stuff, chuck it. When you have drawing hands, like suited connectors, only play them when you have enough people committed to the hand to make them worthwhile. And move seats so that you can exploit him. Try getting to his immediate left or his immediate right so that you can isolate or pre-isolate. | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, flintsword, 5. Jul 2003 10:40 | ||
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| I read both your posts DJ, so let's see if I have this str8. A loose n crazy guy rolls into your game and bets heavily preflop with ANY hand and instead of tightening up, ... the table's general reaction is "3 or 4 callers" out of 7 players. I also want you to know that I am making comments on the thinking in this situation. Please do not take the comments personally. First of all, I think you have made a good table selection. Sounds loose and stayed loose when the maniac arrived. Secondly, check your pulse, because what you are describing would make me think I had died and gone to heaven ... :) Yes, you are going to be facing a possibility of greater swings in your bankroll. Yes, this kind of game is not what you are used to. Can a player parachute into a game, raise like a madman, and expect to win? Maybe against some of the players at the table, but play tight and you should be ahead of the game. Let him take care of the aggressive part of the definition "tight aggressive", you stick to the tight part. If he hits great cards, let him win the pots the rest of the table gives him. When you get a good hand, punish his looseness. If you have TT and the flop is 22T, check and let this guy nail himself to the cross before you raise the river with the almost nuts (and hope he doesn't have 22, but how could you tell, he raises everything that moves!) When you get a good drawing hand, check and call if the pot odds are there. With all the raising and activity from the rest of the table, chances are good that you are going to get the odds to draw on in some hands. This player's card strategy behaviour should have been OBJECTIVELY considered: "Is this behaviour a good thing, or a bad thing?" Looks good to me ... ***grin***. I hope you are taking this comment in the right way. Your super post has, IMO, brought up the importance on "state of mind" when conditions change. In your case they changed drastically. The ability to adapt your game to small changes in game conditions is apparently a real skill. (eg) smaller number of players, addition or subtraction of a loose player, addition or subtraction of a tight player, or in your case, addition of a maniac raiser. Adapting to changes in the composition of players is - I feel - a part of improving. That said, I would like to hear from the pros HOW they SPECIFICALLY adjust their game to adapt to a maniac, since it is unlikely I have got it completely right. (I take the brave stand of thinking I am at least partially right in this, but open to correction ...) flintsword | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, Swagman, 5. Jul 2003 20:28 | ||
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| I would aggree with the gist of your post. However, you will be dealing with a finite amount of time in this dream state. Accepting the fact that this so called 'maniac' is likely the best player at the table and will adapt his game when he sees that what he is doing is no longer working would be helpful, if he doesn't then even more reason for glee. But regardless the time here to monopolize on things will probably be short lived. This is way I would reserve the term 'TIGHT' for something other then poker in this instance, as you will be recieving pot oods to justify more hands. As for as position, this is already been covered by others in this thread. | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, MozMan, 5. Jul 2003 11:03 | ||
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| Best thing to do with a guy like this is to tighten up, muck the marginal hands you might have played before, but when you have the really good ones, go after him with a vengeance. When you've got a big holding and he's got 85o, he'll still pay you off because he thinks he can bluff you out of anything. These are the hands that will make up for the flops you had to miss. Any other astute players at the table will recognize when you are gonna take him down and bow out. -Moz "Have you seen the Motor Vehicle Bureau? It's a Leper colony down there!" | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, mongi, 5. Jul 2003 12:10 | ||
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| A few things to think about. 1) Sometimes just because someone is loose and aggressive before the flop doesn't mean they don't know how to play after the flop. I know several people who like to play this style and each has his own reason for doing it. This may be the one night a month that their wife has let them out so they figure they are going to gamble it up. they are not there to make one big bet an hour they are there to hit it big or lose it all. If this player is the type who will just play his cards no matter what to the bitter end then you have a very profitable situation. Just watch out for the ones who know what they are doing after the flop. 2) Plan on making this a long session assuming this player is going to stick around. In the short run he may suck-out on you but in the long run you should get your money back plus some. 3) If this style of play is affecting you mentally and you don't feel as though you are playing your best then you may want to change games. Usually though if you know what you are doing this is a good situation to be in. 4) Be very observant how this player is affecting the strategy of the other players. If you are in a multiway pot try to have a good understanding of why they are there. Questions to ask yourself 1) How have these players adjusted there starting hand requirements? 2) When I reraise the maniac am I getting any respect? | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, LJH, 5. Jul 2003 12:14 | ||
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| DJpoker, first, i try to move my seat so i am behind him, and can get my raise after him and isolate him. i also play only big hands or leave the table. ljh | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, DJpoker, 5. Jul 2003 13:17 | ||
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| Thanks guys for the information. Let me clarify a bit. I had many issues going on at the time and wasn't in the mood. I truly appreciate the earnest comments as I am still developing my overall game. All I know is that I am drastically improving and part of that is due to the many intelligent posts and responses you provide me. I will be much better equipped to deal with that situation in the future. BTW, the game I left broke up about 20 minutes later. All I know is that I have had 4 out of 5 positive sessions and my local B&M looks like a great place for me to make money. Look forward to speaking with all of you soon. "I love you man. No, you can't have my bud light!" Good luck finding nemo. DJpoker | ||
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| Re: Dealing w/ crazy raisers, timmer, 6. Jul 2003 08:18 | ||
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| on 5. Jul 2003 01:49 DJpoker wrote: > Playing 3-6 HE. everyone wants to switch to 4-8 (i wasn't thrilled). A new > player comes in and raises every pre-flop blind. I wasn't in the mood for big flucuations. Thanks, DJpoker then you did the right thing by getting up. "your the captain of your ship sail it any way you want just try to keep it off the reef." "there are still plenty of young captains sailing new ships onto old shoals" - timmer so don't worry you didn't really miss any thing. Paraphrased from Caro's Major Poker Seminar video tape. When a aggressive Player....... Attacks on early betting rounds, with strong hands just call. Bets recklessly, Raise More liberally. If you don't have these tapes...... I truly pity you. timmer | ||
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