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Server Time: 10/15/2008 4:00:48 PM PACIFIC |
 RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 09:51 | ||
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| First of all, I'd like anybody who considers themselves to be a "core" user of this forum to read this: http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html I personally think that UPF has the potential to be a great online poker forum and I dread it turning into RGP ... Mike Caro recently called RGP a sewer and while I wouldn't go that far, it has definitely suffered the more popular it has become. So Mike, Roy, Moderators, and others - what do you think of making this forum a little more slashdottish in terms of having user karma of one kind or another - a way for core users to get a good reputation and be seen as such and to be able to speak with a voice of authority. I'm thinking of those posters who are universally respected here such as 4 Poker, Shorn, Paul Stine, Andrew Wells, and a number of others (not to leave anybody out specifically). Also, as the volume is growing here, I'm finding that I don't have time to read or respond to many of the posts and on that note I think that it is time to branch into more categories than just "poker" and "not quite poker". I propose: "Home games" "Ring games" "Casino information (online and B&M)" "Tournaments" "Newbie questions" "Other poker talk" "UPF special events" "Not quite poker" | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., MozMan, 4. Jul 2003 10:54 | ||
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| Hey stdioh- I didn't read the whole article, just skimmed it; I'll get back to it when I'm more awake. I do agree with you, and with what I saw so far in teh article. The group here is becoming increasingly 'unstable' in that there are constantly new members and aconstant growth in size. Likely, the group will constantly oscillate between storming and norming stages. I do think we are off on the right foot though, because we have a sizeable core of solid members, and that core should be able to incorporate new members into the forum pretty handily. I really like the suggestion of breaking it down into more subject areas. This would make it so much easier to keep up with the increased volume. Kudos studio. Excellent suggestions. -Moz "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., 4 POKER, 4. Jul 2003 11:11 | ||
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| Stdioh, When you have the time, please e-mail me at capa217@aol.com I'd like to ask you some questions regarding this matter but in all honesty would much rather ask you in private. This is no offense to any of the regular posters here, but my opinions and/or questions may not be suitable for the "entire" forum to view. I think it would be in your best interest (and the forum's regulars) to not add too much feedback as I'm not sure what the hell I'm talking about anyway! So do me a favor and allow me to that one-on-one, okay? This seems to be an important issue to discuss but maybe it should be discussed elsewhere? (e-mail....thank-you, stdioh). 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., PokerDude, 4. Jul 2003 11:20 | ||
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| I've never really looked into any other post sites. i enjoy this one. Everyone(99%) seem to be good people with nice wit and funny jokes. I look forward to improving my game and growing with the site, here. I like the categories idea, but we should make them sub-categories, so we can still scan them all. ( I know you probably meant this anyway, but I'm always thinking outloud) I sometimes would like to set my "glasses on one part of a thread, rather than the whole thing. Someway to be able to print a 'printer friendly' version of posts would be cool too. A place where people could list their home games by region. free planet points ( I have to try, right?)(LoL) "nice hand" Officially Licensed Dude | ||
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| clarification, stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 15:01 | ||
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| What I am getting at here is that the core is growing much more slowly than the fringe. RGP is much older and has already experienced this to maturity. What happens is that there are so many people with such a small emotional investment in RGP that it degrades into a hive of flames and trolls ... if we can find some way to flag existing and future core members, even strictly symbolically, as being special then we can maintain at least a loosely defined hierarchy. The long and short of it is that without some kind of structure, UPF will be in danger of falling to a "tyranny of the majority" and I think that it would be better to address this before it happens since you can't resurect a dead leader and you can't put toothpaste back into the tube. Right now UPF is great, but that greatness will attract people, many of whom will be idiots - it is a question of the economics of scale. Thus the proposition is that UPF gets tightened up a little. By expanding the topics tree we would also be able to curb that degradation as it would spread the bad elements around a bit more. As far as a hierarchy goes right now, moderators are never heard from and the only voices of authority here regularly are Roy and Mike. In the proposed system they would have high "karma" or whatever you want to call it. The long story short is that while core members understand other core members, the newbies who wander in won't know one of us from another - we need a way to flag people as having opinions that are to be respected. I'm already starting to see it with posters like onlinechamp ... I haven't seen cause for concern with his posts, but it is obvious that he has something of a bad reputation. | ||
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| Re: clarification, 4 POKER, 4. Jul 2003 15:32 | ||
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| Stdioh, Perfect. Outstanding. Well stated and NOW I fully understand! (and agree 100%).....good job. Thanks, 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., 4 POKER, 4. Jul 2003 16:02 | ||
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| Let's get the ball rolling on this....the sooner the better. 4 POKER | ||
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| further clarification, stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 16:05 | ||
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| From an email to 4 POKER: Here's how I see it. If every user had a rating that starts at 0 when you join and if you could filter the posts by rating then you could chose to only read posts from users rated X or above. Then anybody with a rating of N could promote any user at level N-2 to be at level N-1 or demote any user at level N-1 to N-2. Then the system would be self correcting. Somebody new comes on and says something stupid then somebody else at level 1 can push them down to -1 and nobody will have to listen to them anymore unless they want to. Somebody starts making good posts and a level 2 makes them a level 1, etc. Now everybody can still read everything, but only from the people they want to hear. You could also have the first poster on a thread limit responses to only come from users on level X. So I could say, "UPF tourney coming up - open to all posters with a positive rating - leave a post here to sign up" and only people who had contributed something positive would be allowed in. It isn't a perfect system, but it would allow some control of the group. Anybody who was universally hated would have no voice and anybody who was universally respected would become a defacto leader. Oh, and to add to that, users who continue to post and don't get their rating explicitly changed by somebody above them would have to get promoted up by default after a while. That would keep a positive flow in the system. Likewise, anybody who contributed anything positive with a rating of 0 would have to be promoted to 1 by somebody with a higher rating quickly, since 0 is really a wasteland. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, Swagman, 4. Jul 2003 16:58 | ||
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| that sounds like elite thinking, and I have heard stupid posts from everyone in this forum. That includes 4 poker when he went on a seemingly drunken beratement when I mentioned to be careful about placing money in on-line poker sites. Another thing is there is always controversial oppositions about how to play a particular hand alot of times and niether side is wrong because hands can be played several different ways. I think this is just an attempt at the 'short man' complex going on in this site. If you need to feel important than put on your beater t-shirt and go out your old lady like normal. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 09:47 | ||
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| I'm not even going to dignify that post with a response. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, str82tko, 4. Jul 2003 17:44 | ||
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| If it's not broke, why fix it? This is a great forum with many good contributors. Here or anywhere you will have the 10% that make it difficult sometime. Experience shows me ignoring them diffuses them. What I don't want to see is this forum turn into a clique for only the oldest or most impressed with themselves posters. I see World Class Champions make mistakes and foolish plays (according to 11 different authors, also champions) thus none of us are perfect so why think a few select here have all the answers? Just my thoughts with no offense intended toward anyone. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, Swagman, 4. Jul 2003 18:11 | ||
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| Right on I wanted to use that cliche as well. If it ain't broke why fix it. Word. Its just a select few that think they have a game that lets their little Napoleon complexes get the best of them. 4 poker and Stdioh have a nice knowledge of poker, but they don't ever bring to me WOW that is a pontentially great concept, or WOW I never thought of that. I have tho on occasion came across that with other posters that post here infrequently. This would mean the the truley aspiring posters would be low on the totem so to speak. Its just non-sense. I would like to see the credential of the so-to-speak person who is in charge of rating each person. He better dam well be a signicantly winning poker player then I am thats for sure. You guys need to put down the bottle and the lap dances or whatever you do to justify your miserable life and actually go pit and fine something worthwhile to presue. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 09:48 | ||
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| Why fix it? Preventive maintenance. And I'm not suggesting that we make it a restricted place for only the oldest members - that takes away from the spirit of having a place where everybody can come to freely discuss poker. I'm talking about preventing the inevitable anachy that ruins online forums in time. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, Allyc, 4. Jul 2003 18:02 | ||
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| All UPF members are created equal, but some are more equal than others. Regards, Allyc. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, Swagman, 4. Jul 2003 18:13 | ||
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| All things that are equal sort of equal things that are sort of equal to each other. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, Allyc, 4. Jul 2003 19:49 | ||
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| No they don't. | ||
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| Re: further clarification, stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 09:50 | ||
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| How about all UPF members are created equal, but their equality status shifts with their works? | ||
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| Re: further clarification, MozMan, 4. Jul 2003 23:02 | ||
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| hmm... I'm not so sure I like the rating thing. The sub-topics are a really good idea, because readers/posters could choose to ignore entire subtopics and it would be a much more pleasant experience to get what you want without wading through so many posts overall. I think it makes much more sense to ask for stricter moderation, or a say in the moderation as posters who care. It's really quite simple, there are rules to be followed here and flaming is not allowed. Being generally an ass is not allowed either. When someone comes along who generally offends the board their access should be removed; that simple. People have a right to express themselves, but they do not have a right to be listened to, not do they have a right to have someone else provide them a forum to express themselves, so they should be bound to the rules to access the privilege of posting here. Those rules are what we must rely upon to keep this forum good. -Moz "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., DJpoker, 4. Jul 2003 18:44 | ||
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| Didn't England want to keep the good ol U S of A on a string at one time? Didn't the South think they were better than the North? Happy 4th of July to everyone. I do understand stdioh's point about this not turning into a message board of crap, but we don't have to read any post we don't want to. Also, I had a website and it started out nicely. Gradually, as it's popularity grew, just as you predict stdioh, the element of friendliness and respectability declined. All we can do is be ourselves and not worry about bad posters. Good luck out there. DJpoker | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., Swagman, 4. Jul 2003 18:54 | ||
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| You are correct. And Im glad to hear that there are people out there with reasonable minds. This is a forum board. The purpose of this board is to assimilate information on poker. The more information the better. Even if alot of the information is posted from players that think a straight beats a four of a kind it is still made stronger with more users then a censored down rated version. But either way it makes no difference to me because in the long run I will come out ahead. If this board stays in its original format then I will enjoy the rare post that actually makes me think. And if the Little Ceasars get there way then I will have the blessing of playing against a bunch of 4 poker and Stioh schooled neophytes at the poker table. So as you can see either option is favorable to me. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., gary ford, 4. Jul 2003 18:58 | ||
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| on 4. Jul 2003 09:51 stdioh wrote: > First of all, I'd like anybody who considers themselves to be a "core" user of > this forum to read this: > > http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html > > I personally think that UPF has the potential to be a great online poker forum > and I dread it turning into RGP ... Mike Caro recently called RGP a sewer and > while I wouldn't go that far, it has definitely suffered the more popular it has > become. > > So Mike, Roy, Moderators, and others - what do you think of making this forum a > little more slashdottish in terms of having user karma of one kind or another - > a way for core users to get a good reputation and be seen as such and to be able > to speak with a voice of authority. > > I'm thinking of those posters who are universally respected here such as 4 > Poker, Shorn, Paul Stine, Andrew Wells, and a number of others (not to leave > anybody out specifically). > > Also, as the volume is growing here, I'm finding that I don't have time to read > or respond to many of the posts and on that note I think that it is time to > branch into more categories than just "poker" and "not quite poker". I > propose: > "Home games" > "Ring games" > "Casino information (online and B&M)" > "Tournaments" > "Newbie questions" > "Other poker talk" > "UPF special events" > "Not quite poker" Hi Studioh--- I consider myself a "core user". I read UPF daily, i contribute when i know something and i don't "flame". It's also been a loooooooong time since my 20"s. But my clame to the title is based on the fact that i read the ENTIRE article before I typed a word. I have no elitist feelings, although I'm careful who I associate with, but the rapidly accelerating growth of UPF is following exactly the patterns outlined in that paper. I don't think rating people is practical although that is what my brain does automatically. Your comments and those of 4POKER are the first i look for, and i don't need a grading system to help me. Now that the posts are up in the 100s every day, I've adopted a screening process similar to what you outline as sub-categories. I ignore certain threads based on subject matter and poster. I used to read every [post 3 months ago--that would be neither practical or pleasant now. I'm more interested in the future growth of poker than whether AA UTG should be raised or slow-played, Why?-- Because it depends. Gary P.S. Oh i do look for Wrens posts also, lol | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., Swagman, 4. Jul 2003 19:17 | ||
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| OMG this board went from a pleasant distraction while at work to a surreal pre-war Nazi Germany party. Already the suck ups have come to tell some of the Core Users that Im a Core User too. So make sure whomever is in power to place my name on the Core User List if I post. Im gonna take a step back from this site because its kinda scaring me alittle atm. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 09:53 | ||
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| Thanks Gary. I appreciate the praise. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., PokerDude, 4. Jul 2003 19:32 | ||
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| The thing that drew me to this site was that a beginning to intermediate player like myself can improve my game. In this system you describe, It doesn't sound like you wish to continue listening to questions from these types. If someone was visiting this site for the first time with a legitimate question, they, being rated zero, would be ignored. You would then be shunning new people who wished to contribute to this in a positive way. good day and good luck Officially Licensed Dude | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., Don Quixote, 4. Jul 2003 22:00 | ||
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| Color me "core reader" because my few posts dont really add much to the expert core posters. Funny that I have read Animal Farm also and that was one of my favorite books. Also, someone else used the exact word that came to me before I even read that "all were equal..........." That word was elitist. Rating posters according to any standard comes down to one thing in human nature: ego! This new idea sounds much like 2+2. I mostly read there, but once in a while I forget and post. The elite there havent been rated except as to how much they post. There are no ranks such as general, colonel, etc, but it is pretty well understood who the de facto experts are Nasty Dy, Clark, etc. They deign to come down from Mt. Olympia from time to time to instruct the small stakes people. Clark doesnt get nasty, but Dy sometimes does. I wouldnt mind having dissent to my posts explained to me. In fact, that is why I post. I usually come away shaking my head and wondering what I learned....if anything. There are still some great posters there such as Bernie, Bob T. and many more that are a little more patient in explaining things. But, we are talking about UPF. I have posted dumb questions here but I have received good, sound advice. I can see, however, that we might be heading in the wrong direction if we are not careful. I hope not, but human nature eventually rears its ugly head. The old acronym K.I.S.S. comes to mind. Yes, it might be helpful to have various subject forums here; but, please, lets try to avoid the heirarchy thing. My two cents..... Don Quixote on 4. Jul 2003 19:32 PokerDude wrote: > The thing that drew me to this site was that a beginning to intermediate player like > myself can improve my game. In this system you describe, It doesn't sound like you > wish to continue listening to questions from these types. If someone was visiting > this site for the first time with a legitimate question, they, being rated zero, > would be ignored. You would then be shunning new people who wished to contribute to > this in a positive way. > > good day and good luck > > Officially Licensed Dude | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., Swagman, 4. Jul 2003 22:18 | ||
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| Another rational mind heard from. The Animal Farm analogy funny stuff. Isn't all a little scary tho. Funny how Mr. Caro does nothing better then stir up the poker table is now stirring up this forum. If you need self gratification do what is normal to do. Using lotion is optional. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., 4 POKER, 5. Jul 2003 04:20 | ||
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| To Pokerdude, No,no,no,no,no! I can and will only speak for myself when I say that I enjoy listening and responding to all who post here. My concern was based on having to read the posts from people who are improperly contributing to this forum. I am referring to the constant spam posters like people who are constantly coming on here just to try and promote their own web-sites and/or trying to get people to play on a site that might not be reputable at all, thus for some of the younger people here may be influenced by their offerings and for that reason alone is why I do not like the fact that they are here,period. I care about everyone here and the welfare of the whole forum, and feel that because I am older and maybe a lttle wiser when it comes to spammie type people, my better judgement tells me that all those type of posts should be banned. There are so many new and by that I mean young (so try not to confuse the two, because it doesn't matter to me at all how experienced or inexperienced someone may be at poker....who cares), my main concern is to protect the welfare of the younger posters because it would be a real shame for any of them to be swayed and/persuaded by these constant spammers promting a site in which I feel could do more harm than good. Those are my true feelings here. Call me corny, I don't care, It makes me livid when I have to constantly try to defuse any of their comments because in my honest opinion, this forum should not be a place where people can just come to "plug" their sites. That is why we (all) are here. To help each other. Sure there will be new posters, but as long as everyone is truly interested in poker and trying to better themselves and others, that is all that matters. I think that I respond to too many of the posts here, (not that I don't want to), it's just that I shouldn't have to get into a heated debate over something that was not worth discussing in the first place, meaning scam posters, spam posters, trolls, whatever. My thoughts are to assign a few people to filter out these posters so we can have a place to come to that is relaxed and filled with many different ideas/views/strategies/theories and some laughter perhaps?, by all. Can that be done? I don't know, but I think this forum would be a better place if it could, I really do. Agree or disagree, poker is a game that is based on many variables and when we can all contribute (even if you just chose to post, and not reply), that is fine.....as long as we can chose to keep it poker and only poker, branches of the subject are fine.......let's just keep it positive, with no interuptions from people who aren't really interested in our well-being anyway. To add to that, noone is a zero, noone. Just the ones who are trolling our forum are zeros and they're the ones who need to be booted. The part about breaking down the forum into groups by topic matter, is a good idea and I think the home-game posters and things of that nature should be put in a separate category all together and only because, even though some people may find those posts useful....they still are coming (for the most part) to the UPF just to plug their home game and may not be a contributor to the forum at all. I'm not putting them down or anything, but this is a poker forum where we are supposed to be discussing poker, and we're not coming here just to advertize. That is what I'm trying to get across. And if someone disagrees with that (and I know the home-game posters will, ha ha), well that's ok too. These are just my opinions and a way in which I think we can catagorize our forum so the real important issues stay in one place. It's no big issue really, they would still have the priveledge of posting up their home-game, but a separate section that does not have to be viewed by all may enable those who just want to discuss poker, have an easier time in doing so. I think the rating system that was mentioned was not one that was intended to eliminate or shun anyone at all, (anyone who cared, that is), it was a way to get the people to interact on a more personal and group type atmosphere where noone was elite or a true zero. Everyone could be a 10. It could work as to try and better ourselves (everyone included). Noone is a leader over anybody and I don't think those were the intentions at all. Maybe I'm missing something here (which wouldn't be a first, LOL), but I honestly believe that this was just an approach as to try and eliminate any negative and/or unwanted posts from people who I refer to as "Cancer". It's a person who picks and picks and naws and naws at you, it continues and continues and before you know it.....its spreading so fast that eventually it eats away at all that was once good and positive and turns that into a negative and undesirable place to be at. The only one who survives is the "Cancer" and everyone else suffers severely because of it. So, my thinking is to try and eliminate all forms of that so all of us who truly do care and give positive feedback to this forum can live in a more positive and healthy environment. That's my one dollar..... 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., Swagman, 5. Jul 2003 04:58 | ||
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| 'Here's how I see it. If every user had a rating that starts at 0 when you join and if you could filter the posts by rating then you could chose to only read posts from users rated X or above. Then anybody with a rating of N could promote any user at level N-2 to be at level N-1 or demote any user at level N-1 to N-2. Then the system would be self correcting. Somebody new comes on and says something stupid then somebody else at level 1 can push them down to -1 and nobody will have to listen to them anymore unless they want to. Somebody starts making good posts and a level 2 makes them a level 1, etc. Now everybody can still read everything, but only from the people they want to hear. You could also have the first poster on a thread limit responses to only come from users on level X. So I could say, "UPF tourney coming up - open to all posters with a positive rating - leave a post here to sign up" and only people who had contributed something positive would be allowed in. It isn't a perfect system, but it would allow some control of the group. Anybody who was universally hated would have no voice and anybody who was universally respected would become a defacto leader.' That which is written above is the cancer, and rational thinking human beings recognize this sort of tyranical thinking as a cancer. After all Hitler was only concerned with the walfare of Germany. Just as some of you are concerned about the walfare of this board. This is all Ego driven mediocracies. Whether you choose to mask your ego in a veil of: 'Im older and more experienced then some of the other people that post here...' Some of the best players in the world now are younger players, so that just doesn't hold water. If you are really wanted to improve this site then there are better ways of doing this then through self gratification that some moron may respect what you have to say because your older and wiser, and have 10 stars behind you name blah, blah, blah. Firstly you could initiate an individaul IGNORE list, that everyone had the ability to filter certain people that they could'nt stand. Secondly, I would have no problem with honest non-ego driven nomicals after ones name that would read maybe as follows: 4 POKER has been a member since 04/07/1916 has written 21000003 posts. But honestly, do whatever you wanna do . Im just writing in hopes that you might understand that you and your cohorts are treading on potentially unsavory waters. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., 4 POKER, 5. Jul 2003 05:24 | ||
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| Swagman First....I think you need to lighten up a little bit here. Obviously your own ego was affected, so take a breather and calm down. We're talking poker here, so please......chill out. Second...........I was going to respond to your comments but than I noticed that you didn't take the time to really read into what I had to say. No big deal. Third.........if you do feel the desired need to try and sling my name across the mud, then so be it.......enjoy yourself. I have three words for you and there listed under #4............ Fourth.........God Bless You. Good night........... (07/05/2003) Done. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., Swagman, 5. Jul 2003 05:34 | ||
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| God bless your too, Sir. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 10:06 | ||
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| You crack me up Swag. > After all Hitler was only concerned with the walfare of Germany. What is "walfare" ... do you mean welfare? > This is all Ego driven mediocracies. What is are "mediocracies" ? ... are they like democracies? Something to do with the media? > ...there are better ways of doing this then through self gratification... How many times are you going to confuse "then" and "than" ... we're not talking rocket surgery here. > that you and your cohorts are treading on potentially unsavory waters. OMFG! That last line is priceless. First of all, I wish I could tread on water. I mean, really, that would make me some kind of demigod at least. And I guess you know that savory waters are salty waters and if I could indeed walk on water I would want to be able to walk on the lakes and rivers too, so great. Swag, one of two things is true in your case. You are either a young highschooler (I'm thinking about grade 8), you dropped out when you were a young high schooler, or you're the product of the American public school system. If you ever want to be taken seriously in this world, you really need to mind your grammar. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., Swagman, 5. Jul 2003 21:02 | ||
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| Unfortunately, it was late at night and my spell checker doesn't work. This may explain some of my grammatical errors and mixed metaphors I hope. The other errors I would accept your analysis that I was a poor product of a poor school system. But it really shouln't result in a flame. I was attacking an Ideal, Stdioh, not a single person. I really am only utilizing this site as a fix to eliviate boredom. I have no sincere interest in the welfare of this site. If you choice to evolve this site into a militant censored down version with points attributed to the 'so called' experts you will destroy what at one time was a nice site. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., stdioh, 6. Jul 2003 16:46 | ||
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| I don't see how calling me Hitler is attacking an ideal. But I'm willing to be reasonable about it and you're right - there is no good time for flaming. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., PokerDude, 5. Jul 2003 06:24 | ||
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| 4poker.. You have always been very generous to my posts, but if there was a ranking system, how often would anyone want to look at the lowest rated posts? I would guess not many. That's just human nature. Anyway, I say this lightheartedly, cuz I know you like to help. Anyway, I do agree that something should be done about trolls and such, but couldn't we just have a quick button for "trolls" that we click on, and if they get "troll buttoned" 3-4 times, they will have their account revoked? Again, 4Poker, thank you for your help in the past and in the future. Officially Licensed Dude | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., 4 POKER, 5. Jul 2003 07:00 | ||
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| PokerDude, No. In my opinion there IS no lowest rated post, period. The only low posters are the trolls and scam/spam posters, nobody else..........NOBODY! I respond to posts that I feel that I can give my input to and I personally would never just overlook someone 'cause he's the "new guy"...that would be silly. Now....the mathematical questions posts?.....Those I leave alone (LOL). I wish we could click on a button, and just delete them all together.....who knows, I have a feeling that this maybe too difficult to accomplish so we're probably going to have to just ignore it all. Anyway, thanks for listening and know, that your input is just as valuable as mine or anybody elses for that matter so please.......I can only give you my opinions and that is what we all are doing really.....giving opinions,advice,questions and encouragement. That is what the UPF is about......at least for me it is! Thank you again. P.s. I think when stdioh returns he will clarify this even more so not to worry, I don't think his intentions were bad at all. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 10:10 | ||
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| That troll button would be a good idea, but the problem with it is again a tyranny of the majority. What happens when you get 500 users on the system and 5 of them don't like one of them (hey, it could be me - it could be you) ... so they troll button the guy and knock him out. Really what you need is governance by moderators, but it is very obvious in the case of UPF that the "moderators" are just a complaint department and won't do anything unless specifically tapped. Thus, we need to apoint people with some degree of power over the system. Now if you want democracy, things are still probably small enough now to vote on a leader, but as was written in that document, online voting is impossible to make fair. Thus there has to be some other way of expressing the will of the UPF participants for choosing a leadership. I'm open to ideas. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 09:55 | ||
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| Indeed, I think that a lot of the value of this board is in answering the questions of newbies, but those who want to answer those questions (myself included) could still do so. What this system would offer is more freedom for people who don't want to answer those questions to avoid being deluged by them. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., shorn, 7. Jul 2003 05:47 | ||
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| OK, so I am a little late to the discussion here but thought I would weigh in. I am a big believer in democracy where, "in theory", all are created equal under the protections of the law. What you choose to do with that opportunity is your own decision. Some choose to work hard and contribute all they can; others choose to loaf, denigrate, and generally live off of the work of others. However, each is still always given the opportunity to change. Applying this to UPF, every poster should have the right to be a contributor without the burden of being labeled in one category or another. I think that everyone can be learned from, regardless of age, experience, or knowledge of the game. NO ONE has cornered the market on poker knowledge and I have found that if you begin thinking that you are "better" than someone else, this will ultimately lead to your failure and downfall. I will say that while I suppose I am somewhat selfishly flattered to be considered a "core" person in the original post, I feel it completely wrong to be singled out from many of the other contributors that I read and learn from every day. This forum is not a contest to see who is better than whom...rather, it is a social, strategy "think tank" where the "game" can be explored in greater depths through idea sharing from a diverse set of individuals all who come at the same issues from different experience. Any system of ranking individuals would corrupt that free idea sharing as people would begin to assume that 1 person's idea is better than another. In no uncertain terms, this is a form of racism pure and simple. I AM in favor of eliminating spam posts or being given an individual decision to screen out certain posters who we all know to be spam. But, if a ranking system were to be adopted, I for one would most likely not be seen here again. | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., flintsword, 5. Jul 2003 05:48 | ||
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| What a great article! I decided to sleep on it and also read up a little more. When I came back, there was a lively thread of generally constructive comment. UPF is getting bigger, that is a fact. Breaking it up into subgroups may work, but if I read the article correctly, this will not solve the problem, since a UPFer seeking a wide audience for his question will seek the biggest category. Grading is an idea with merit that needs to be explored, but I feel the mechanics of the process would undermine the primary objective of UPF: to exchange poker ideas and discuss poker-related situations so we - as players - can improve. Moderators have a thankless job, but they have access to information that would allow them to issue a number of special icons replacing the grey head after everyone's name. I would suggest that everyone gets the talking head icon we all see, that is democratic and right. Nothing changes. I feel the moderators should be identified by red heads because they are, after all, the site moderators and identifies them as such. I feel that anyone the moderators feel have contributed wisely and constantly should have a second icon after the grey head, a yellow book is a good one, it identifies that person as a regular source of sane poker information. This icon would be granted once a quarter (so time pressure on the moderators is minimized), has a minimum amount of contributions required, and is CLEARLY understood as being an optical aid. This will help new people by clearly identifying regular posters with merit linked to performance on UPF. I am sure most of the regular users could not care less about getting an extra icon, but it is a passive idea that can be tried for a few months. Flamers and trolls: I think we can all agree that they are the bane of a rational group. Here is my suggestion to address the problem: (1) Clearly define what a "flame" is or "troll" does. (2) Put that definition in the info so everyone knows. (3) Create a subcategory "Poker Flames & Trolls" (or a more politically correct title such as "Poker Promotional Party") to address the right of free speech from those people. (4) Everyone that is in breach of the rules gets a little flame icon which means that WHENEVER they post on UPF, that actual post shows up in the "Poker Flames & Trolls" sub Group and on the thread the flame icon shows up. You want to read the flames on a thread, click the flames icon. If someone gets mad at getting assigned a flame icon, ... well, they can email the moderator and politely ask to be reinstated. If they are really mad, they may leave. Think of it like the structure of government: Free speech for all but you can't let every crank mouth out in the middle of Congress or in parliament, .... but they can write ... :) Just my input guys and even if the "yellow book icon" idea is a bit weak, I really like the idea of casting the flamers into their own section where they are read BY CHOICE, rather than by default & thanks Stdioh for a most illuminating article. flintsword | ||
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| Re: RGP, UPF, etc ... where are we going., str82tko, 5. Jul 2003 08:58 | ||
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| Ladies & Gentlemen of UPF. I will add my final thoughts to this thread and then ignore it from this point forward. My Reference: I 'lurked' here for a very long time before I ever made my first post. Why? To see if the forum was worth anything. Results: Absolutely! Qualifiers to that decision: (1) Lots of great info, some I agreed with and some I didn't (never felt a need to argue with what I didn't agree with) (2) Made aware of concepts I hadn't thought of before or learned a new way to think about a concept (3) Some pretty good humor along the way (4) An overall friendly and inviting forum (5) The way 'regulars' re-answered questions from new posters that had been completely gone over just 2 weeks before. This was done without attitude (6)The way spammers were handled, ignored. If you don't feed the fire it won't grow. Conclusion: We have a great thing going here so in those immortal words "Can't we just get along" may apply here. It's obvious the grading thing has not been well received so let us move forward and start talking about poker again! ps. I found for me when I get on the forum I sort by 'unread' then only read what I want and all the rest get the 1 click to mark the thread read. Takes but a few minutes to go through 100 posts. In other words, read what you need and leave the rest. Best of luck at the tables. | ||
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| Excellent thinking..., stdioh, 5. Jul 2003 10:14 | ||
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| Flint. I think that this is far and away the best paradigm I have heard yet on the subject and I fully endorse your "yellow book, red hat, flame" iconification plan. | ||
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| Re: Excellent thinking..., gary ford, 5. Jul 2003 19:01 | ||
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| on 5. Jul 2003 10:14 stdioh wrote: > Flint. I think that this is far and away the best paradigm I have heard yet on the subject > and I fully endorse your "yellow book, red hat, flame" iconification plan. isn't it interesting--as WPT passes the mid season mark strange things begin to happen. Party Poker decides to run a couple of commercials and the response is such that they crash and are sill playing catch up. UPF is a nice quiet little forum with a few regular posters and a few lurkers. ( I was one ). The visits to Party Poker have quadrupled as have the posts to UPF.The events outlined in the article studioh cited are now happening to UPF. The principals in UPF need to address this problem. UPFis a valuable resource and needs to be protected and nurtured. These are forewarnings of dramatic changes occuring in the poker world--- a world that is totally unprepared to deal with these changes. Gary | ||
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