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Server Time: 2/12/2012 8:27:09 AM PACIFIC |
 B&M Blunder....., DJpoker, 3. Jul 2003 23:35 | ||
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| Hey folks, Haven't posted in a few days, been playing too much LOL. I know it's way early, but in my first 40 hours of B&M work, I am +$1200, playing mostly 3-6 and a touch of 4-8. The sad thing is I know of several mistakes and even playing too long one time that has dented the bankroll. Again, thanks to many of you who I talked with in the past month before I dove into "The Life." Now here is my situation. Playing a shorthanded and very loose 4-8 game (5 players). This was a kill pot (so it was 8-8-16-16). I had Q-9h in BB +1 position. A marginal hand, but ok for this game. No raises and 1 caller and BB checks. The Flop comes Ah-8s-5h. I bet the four flush, button raises, BB cold calls 2 bets and I call. The raiser has been on a bit of a rush and is a pretty solid player so I figured him on aces. Turn comes 7c. Here is where the chit hits the fan. I'm waiting for BB, seated on opposite side of table and had no clue what he was doing. The dealer is talking to someone behind him. I think the BB checked, I was going to check hoping to save $16 if I didn't hit and figuring I was beat by Aces. I know my outs were 12 (9 flush and the 3 6's for gutshot straight.) The dealer flips the river a 3h. Bam I'm gonna make a nice healthy pot. Check raise the button because he will definitely bet. So the button starts saying hey I was gonna bet the turn (ends up he had Aces and 7s) I thought perfect $32 more for me. The dealer apologizes and I assumed the 3h would stand. They floor manager is called over and says the bet on the turn will stand and we will deal up a new river card. I was frickin livid but tried to stay collected. I threw my hand down (obviously not staying collected) and they said I mucked it which I then didn't really argue because here I am thinking I've won and now I'm on tilt because of the decision. So the new river come up 4h. You can imagine my mood. Needless to say I lost that pot. My question is was it handled correctly? and yes I know I should have called but I wasn't thinking straight and when I threw my hand down it did look like a muck. Have a great 4th of July weekend and I appreciate your advice on this situation. I apologized to the floorman for my abusive behavior and he thanked me and I even told the table I was sorry. Needless to say it blew over and I have achieved a respected status in a pretty short time at the B&M. | ||
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| Re: B&M Blunder....., 4 POKER, 4. Jul 2003 03:10 | ||
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| DJ, This was an unfortunate situation for you because had the dealer been paying attention to the game (and not chatting with the person behind her), she would have realized that the button had not had his turn to act yet. And because of her incompitence here, she directly cost you the pot. The decision that was made by the floorman stands correct as the button is entitled to get his turn to bet. Unless he made any visual signs of checking (like tapping his hand on the table) or by verbally saying "check", he is by all means entitled to get his turn. The rule is, if a card is dealt out or turned over (in this case) and a player was not given his right to make a bet, then yes, that card must come back, they put that card back into the deck, they then shuffle the deck, burn another card, and then they put up a new river card. Now the decision that is a little fuzzy here is when they took your hole cards and put them in the muck. Even though you threw your cards down, both of your cards are dealt to you faced down so it would be a tough call to say that you were planning on mucking your hand. Had this been a seven card stud game and you picked up your hand and turned it faced down on the table then I could see how a dealer would indicate that move as an indication of a fold. But, if all you did was pick up your cards and then throw them back down on the table, unless your cards literally hit the "muck pile", your hand is still "live". Now, when you did throw your cards down and the dealer swooped them up, it is now your responsibility to stop her from doing that by speaking up and protecting your cards. I'm sure everything happened so fast that you didn't even realize what she was doing and like you said, you had thought you had the hand won already. A good lesson for you will be to protect your cards at all times until the dealer has completely pushed you the pot and all of your opponents hands are in the muck. Remember that because even if you were already declared the winner of a hand, if there is a player who still possess cards, they will still be entitled to check back in their hand to see if they may have overlooked the board giving them the chance to still beat you. Protect your cards (maybe with a small paperweight) and don't take it off until everyones cards are in the muck, let the dealer push you the pot first, and then hand him/her your cards.You will find that to be very useful and it will only help to prevent any problems in the future. And if you are planning on folding your cards, then make sure that you do not remove that object/chip until you are 100% sure that you'll be folding your cards. You can also just put your hand on top of your cards from preventing any misunderstandings from a dealer, but just make sure that you are always paying attention to everything that is going on. I know we should be able to rely on the dealer, but you mustn't assume that he/she will never be inclined to make a mistake.....because they do. It was a very unfortunate thing that happened and it simply just boils down to another blunder that was made by a dealer that wound up costing you money because of her sheer and utter incompitence. Making a mistake happens, where all human, but there was no excuse for that dealer to be making idol chit-chat while a hand was still in progress.Believe me, if this cardroom takes any pride at all when it comes to the rules and the rights of all players, this dealer will get an earfull from her boss when her shift is over. Unfortunately for you, there wasn't much that you could have done about it because even though a dealer screwed up here, the floorman still made the correct decision, given the situation. Sorry buddy, better luck. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: B&M Blunder....., stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 08:16 | ||
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| It all depends on the casino. At Brantford they have a terrible rule of not putting cards back into the deck. If it comes out early then action continues for the previous betting round, however nobody has the option of increasing the bet - it becomes call or fold from there on. Which bugs the bejesus out of people trying to checkraise, to say the least. I wish the cards would go back in, but what can you do? | ||
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| Re: B&M Blunder....., 4 POKER, 4. Jul 2003 08:27 | ||
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| on 4. Jul 2003 08:16 stdioh wrote: > It all depends on the casino. At Brantford they have a terrible rule of not putting cards > back into the deck. If it comes out early then action continues for the previous betting > round, however nobody has the option of increasing the bet - it becomes call or fold from > there on. Which bugs the bejesus out of people trying to checkraise, to say the least. > > I wish the cards would go back in, but what can you do? Hey Stdioh, Yes, that is not a good procedure to have, I agree....however, regardless of what rule a casino may have, this problem would have never occured had the dealer taken a full interest and lived up to her duties as a professional. So I don't think it really was an issue of a bad/good ruling....the situation never should have been there in the first place. And I strongly hope that DJ will think about that the next time that particular dealer deals him a winning hand. Incompitence= No tip. My 2 cents. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: B&M Blunder....., stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 08:14 | ||
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| You can have great success and still not be beating the game. 40 hours is a tiny sample size and if you know that there have been some real mistakes, make sure you patch your leaks and thank your lucky stars that you were able to start off on a positive note. Good luck out there and remember that if you ever think that you should get up from the table and go home for the night, then indeed you should. | ||
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| Re: B&M Blunder....., DJpoker, 4. Jul 2003 18:28 | ||
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| Hey 4poker and stdioh, Thanks for the advice. The first thing I always do is place a chip on my cards. I memorize them and never look at them again. I don't indicate anything until it is my turn because I want everyone having no clue what i'm going to do. In the situation we have been discussing, I grabbed my hand and slammed it (i know poor behavior) it went toward the muck but i probably could have saved it. The dealer apologized to me profusely. I rode him about it jokingly on his next two shifts at the table. Thanks stdioh for reminding me that 40 hours is nothing. I am just glad to get moving upward like you said. It has been 4 sessions. 1st - +550 (but i should have left sooner big mistake #1) 2nd - +20 (fought all night and left when I won a hand) 3rd - +800 (played 4-8 and seemed to nail everything) 4th- -180 (that is when the incident took place and I should have left) Thanks for giving the encouragement and I off for session #5 right now. Talk to you later and Happy 4th of July. DJpoker | ||
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