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Server Time: 11/21/2008 5:59:04 PM PACIFIC |
 How would you play this?, Big_Slick, 3. Jul 2003 15:45 | ||
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| 3/6 HE. I'm on the button and am dealt Aces. UNG opens, the player to his immediate right raises (he's proven himself a moron from the time I sat down and don't take any of his play seriously) and I reraise. UNG makes it 4 to go. Flop comes 3h, 6d, 9s. UNG bets, the next player raises and I reraise. UNG calls. The other player calls. The turn brings the 9d. UNG checks, the other player checks and I check. I'm really confused at this point (hence the check) and am wondering if I'm up against a set. I was thinking that I might be facing a check-raise. The river brings the Jc. UNG checks, the next player bets and I raise. Everyone calls. The results of the hand are shown in the thread below. | ||
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| The outcome..., Big_Slick, 3. Jul 2003 15:49 | ||
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| I take down the pot. UNG had Q-Q, the other player had A-K. I really wasn't worried about the middle player. Like I said, he was a maniac that raised pre-flop once with an A-3. The other player had me a bit worried though. However, when he checked on the river, I knew that he did not have trips and I had him beat. That is why I raised on the river even though I did not bet on the turn. Was I being too cautious (or paranoid) on the turn? Would you have bet all the way to the end? | ||
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| Re: The outcome..., Wren, 3. Jul 2003 16:17 | ||
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| I'd continue betting the turn. It's unlikely that one of the other two players has a 9. I'd put UTG on a big pocket pair (KK or QQ likely, possibly the other AA due to his limp-4-bet). The other guy could have, well, a good number of hands, the vast majority of which are not beating you. All in all, I'd be pretty damn confident that I'm good at this point. | ||
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| Re: The outcome..., stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 08:24 | ||
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| I agree that your assessment is correct against decent players, but against really bad players it is hard to know if somebody has a 9. The checks to me here scare me more than a bet to me would. | ||
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| Re: The outcome..., stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 08:23 | ||
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| I think that you played it right. If the moron had a 9, it would make sense that he would try to checkraise you. Your overpair is nice, but not that nice. If anything I would have played it more cautiously, not less. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, PairTheBoard, 3. Jul 2003 16:19 | ||
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| I will read your outcome post after I've posted this, just for fun. btw, I assume you mean that the maniac is to the immediate left of UNG. Your raise on the river doesn't make sense to me. If you were afraid of the check raise on the turn, wouldn't you be just as afraid of the bet out on the river. The bet is coming from the player you fear might have a 9. I might have been tempted to bet the turn though. The maniac could have raised the flop with two possible straight draws and, being a maniac, second or third pair. His raise on the flop may have been a test raise to see if he was up against a couple of AK's. Betting the turn gives UNG a chance to pay you off some more and Maniac may just call. If he raises, you are then put to the test. Against a real maniac I'm afraid I would have to pay him off. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, 4 POKER, 4. Jul 2003 05:09 | ||
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| Hey Slick, I think you played your hand correctly preflop and on the flop, but your actions on the turn and river seem to be questionable. If you checked the turn in last position because you feared that someone had you beat, then after a player bets into you on the river when the J appears, why would you now be inclined to raise him? Okay, you were worried that the UTG player had you beat, but wasn't he a player that you thought was a good player? You only mentioned that there was one maniac in the hand so I'm going to assume that you at least gave credibility to the other players involved, correct? (yes, no)? What hand did you think that the UTG (good player) was holding? I'm just curious. Did you think with that given board that his hand had you beat? If I thought that the UTG player was a good or even decent player, I would still have to assume that my two Aces were still good in that spot. I would have bet the turn after everyone had checked to me, and if I did get check-raised, I would still call in this spot and I would probably pay him off on the river as well if he chose to bet into me again. But if he did check-raise me on the turn and then he decided to check to me on the river?.....I would definitely put a bet in there with my AA and extract another bet out of him. Now...If I thought that I did hold the best hand on the turn, I would make the bet there, and then I would raise the river if someone now decided to bet into me. (If I thought that I still held the best hand). But that's where having a really good read on your opponents come into factor and you have to be able to know what type of hands do these players tend to come in with for a capped bet before the flop and, how do they play their AK's and their AQ's as well. All those factors are very important when deciding how you should be playing your own hand as well. With a capped bet before the flop, if a player or players holds an overpair to the flop/turn, you can best believe that the turn is not going to get passed here without that player/s making a bet or even a raise. If I held JJ,QQ, or KK, you better believe that I would never give anyone a chance to outdraw my pair by hitting an overcard. Remember, the pot was already a substantial size and for that reason alone, the turn card was more likely to get bet (as opposed to check-raising) for the simple fear of giving another player an opportunity now to outdraw him. It's important to remember how the hand was played out preflop so you can get a better and clearer perspective on what holdings they may have. With that board of 3-6-9-9, it is not as likely for someone to be holding the third nine (or better) with that heavy betting that was done pre-flop. I would be more afraid had there been two jacks (or higher) on that board opposed to the board that you mentioned. The maniac would be the one to fear given that raggedy board but when he checks his hand to you on the turn, you can be almost positive that he doesn't have you beat because a maniac never lets up. They just keep betting and betting, regardless of their holding. Their not as capable of a check-raise because their style of play is to always be the aggressor. (remember, you labled him as a maniac, not an aggresive player and there is a difference). Now, even though you were called in all spots on the river when you now decided to raise this maniac, were you honestly thinking of the other holdings that the other player/s were holding? If you gave them big pairs, then your raise is correct because you know that they are going to pay you off. But, if you think that their hands are just decent (AK or a small to medium pair) and is not strong enough to call a raise, then you may be able to extract more money by just flat calling the river bet. Regardless of the fact that you got called in two spots, you should be thinking now..."what is the best play I can make to extract more money?....raising the bettor who you know can't beat you (and may not even be able to call your raise now), or to just call his bet in hoping that the others now will pay you off also. Just something to think about by taking it one step further. Sometimes we raise because we have the best hand but sometimes by just calling is really the more profitable play, But like I said, if you can say that you put the other player/s on a strong enough hand to call 2 bets cold, then your raise was correct. Otherwise, it was not...not if you thought that the lead off bettor (maniac) was not going to call your raise anyway. I'm glad you won the pot Slick, just remember........ the only thing that should concern you when you do chose to enter a pot, is to make the best decisions throughtout the entire hand, know what plays (strategic) will help you to extract the maximum amount of money from your opponents as possible, have the ability to minimize on your losses, and then all you can say is,"Let the chips fall where they may.".........because nothing else matters. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, shorn, 7. Jul 2003 08:13 | ||
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| I think you bet the turn here. I find that poor players if they have a 9 will bet it out anyway because the pot is big and they don't know to go for a checkraise, so I would have interpreted their checks as fear and thought that I was good here. If I was just called and checked to on the river, I would have bet again. | ||
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