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Server Time: 9/7/2008 8:16:19 PM PACIFIC |
 NLHE - Sklansky "The System", oregon, 2. Jul 2003 15:50 | ||
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| In one of his books, Sklansky talks about a system for a novice poker player in a NLHE tourney which was basically: - If there's a raise in front, go all in with AA, KK & AKs. Fold everything else. - If no raise in front, go all in with any pair, any suited ace, AKo, any suited connecter expect 43 or 32. Fold everything else. - During first 4 rounds, play only AA and move all in with it. I'm looking to get into playing NLHE tourneys online. I'm pretty much a rookie at tourney play, would be playing cheap buy in tourneys, probably the $5 and $10 ones. Would mostly be playing sit and go's while occasionally taking a stab at a multi-table tourney here and there. First, is this strategy somewhat sound for a beginner in tourney play? If you were a beginner in tourney play, how would you adjust this strategy in a sit and go environment? Also, how would you adjust this strategy in a multi-table environment. This is my first post in the UPF, though I've lurked for quite some time and have benefitted from the knowledge of many of you. Any help/insight appreciated. Thanks! | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", 4 POKER, 2. Jul 2003 16:18 | ||
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| Hey Oregon, Welcome to the UPF. Although I am no expert on N/L holdem, I'm sure his book will be helpful to you. I'm not sure if I totally agree with the part where he talks about, "Only play AA in the first four rounds and throw everything else away."I think you'll be giving too much away. You surely aren't going to be folding AK suited for a small fee and why would you fold KK, and why not raise with it if you had the opportunity to do so. I don't know, maybe he's suggesting that you play ultra tight. That makes sense, but all tournaments are different and you still must be able to play the players at any one given time, so to say, never do this and always push all in with AA in the first four rounds doesn't sound like poker to me...it sounds like you'll be strictly playing "book poker" and although the basics are needed.... your own style and feel for your opponents (reading abilitiies) are very important in poker and are even more important in N/L. I'm not suggesting that he is wrong, I just think that you need to put your own 'umpf' into it as well, that's all. There's nothing wrong with ultra tight play, you just need to get a good feel for the game in which you are playing in at that time and place. For a beginner....ok, mabe you need to be a little rigid, but don't let that get in your way of making moves and strategic plays either.You should possess both elements. I'll let the more experienced N/L hold-em players take over now. Anyway...once again...Welcome! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", Tim C, 2. Jul 2003 17:15 | ||
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| Oregon I don't think the system will work in online small buy in tournaments. Some of the play is realy loose and they are willing to call all in bets with just about anything. But if you try it let me know if it works for you. I have beem tempted to try it at a BM but so far have not. Good luck | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", str82tko, 2. Jul 2003 19:16 | ||
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| Since the writing of that in his book, he has revised the strategy quite a bit. He works off of what he calls the "key number" devised from a ratio of blinds, largest player stack, number of limpers, number left to play etc. Looks interesting and I have been looking at it quite a bit and want to try it out. I just may in Las Vegas on July 12. He states he cannot (obviously) guarantee any results but promises this system will drive 'pro' players crazy. I'll see for myself and let you know. | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", oregon, 2. Jul 2003 19:20 | ||
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| Interesting str82tko. Do you know where I could find the revised system by chance? | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", str82tko, 2. Jul 2003 20:45 | ||
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| Was going to email it to you but see you found it. Good luck with it and let me know how you make out. | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", 4 POKER, 2. Jul 2003 21:00 | ||
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| Hey str8, would you please mail it to me, I'd really appreciate it. capa217@aol.com Thanks in advance. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", Banning, 2. Jul 2003 21:32 | ||
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| I'm sending it to you right now, i copied and pasted it awhile ago and saved it in my archives. | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", 4 POKER, 2. Jul 2003 22:02 | ||
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| Hey Banning, Thanks so much. I will definitely look into that for sure. 4P- | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", MozMan, 2. Jul 2003 19:23 | ||
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| He had an article about it in Card Player a month or three ago... it was interesting. The article did a pretty good job of explaining the system in brief. -Moz "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", oregon, 2. Jul 2003 19:45 | ||
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| Thanks a bunch MozMan, I found the article on Card Player, looks darn interesting, will give it a shot! | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", MozMan, 2. Jul 2003 20:16 | ||
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| You're very welcome! I'm glad I could help. :) -Moz "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", Paul Stine, 2. Jul 2003 21:09 | ||
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| on 2. Jul 2003 15:50 oregon wrote: > In one of his books, Sklansky talks about a system for a novice poker player in > a NLHE tourney which was basically: > > - If there's a raise in front, go all in with AA, KK & AKs. Fold everything > else. > - If no raise in front, go all in with any pair, any suited ace, AKo, any > suited connecter expect 43 or 32. Fold everything else. > - During first 4 rounds, play only AA and move all in with it. > > I'm looking to get into playing NLHE tourneys online. I'm pretty much a rookie > at tourney play, would be playing cheap buy in tourneys, probably the $5 and $10 > ones. Would mostly be playing sit and go's while occasionally taking a stab at > a multi-table tourney here and there. > > First, is this strategy somewhat sound for a beginner in tourney play? If you > were a beginner in tourney play, how would you adjust this strategy in a sit and > go environment? Also, how would you adjust this strategy in a multi-table > environment. > > This is my first post in the UPF, though I've lurked for quite some time and > have benefitted from the knowledge of many of you. Any help/insight appreciated. > Thanks! I read about this and two things stand out to me. 1.) In a small buy-in tournament, against more inexperienced players the desired effect (having your opponets fold to your all-in move) is greatly diminished. That is you are going to get called when you make your move. 2.) It works everytime, except the last time when you lose all your chips and are out of the tournament. My 2 cents. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", shorn, 3. Jul 2003 04:42 | ||
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| One other thing to keep in mind is that the premise for his system was that a wealthy man in LV wanted to give his daughter the "thrill of a lifetime" by staking her to play in the Big One. The problem was, she had never played poker before, so he had to devise a system that was easy enough for her to remember and that would be somewhere near optimal play. Applying this system in a tournament like a sit and go would be a waste of time because the blinds move up too quickly and people are too willing to call your all-in. You have to do it in a big tournament where there is a lot of time for the solid players to move their chips, so they are more apt to lay down AK, AQ and QQ to your raise. It would, as he states, give the pro players fits though. | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", 4 POKER, 3. Jul 2003 04:49 | ||
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| Shorn, Is that true? Who was this wealthy man? Anyone we may know perhaps? | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", 4 POKER, 3. Jul 2003 05:00 | ||
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| Hey Shorn I am just reading that story right now. Banning had sent me a copy of it over the e-mail. You are correct, sir! | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", shorn, 3. Jul 2003 05:16 | ||
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| Yeah. I have studied the system (and the modified one) a bit, and I think that some of the principles apply well in tournament play. However, it seems to me that for a good player, you will do better long run by not making such drastic moves because you are less likely to bust out early. I need to put more time into the enhanced system because I plan to play one of the NL tourny's when I am in Vegas in November. Gotta study TJ's book for that too...man, whether you play poker for a living or not, it is a job! | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", 4 POKER, 3. Jul 2003 05:19 | ||
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| It certainly is, but you know what shorn....when I first started playing (not for a living), it was actually more fun. I think that had to do with playing so many hands, LOL! | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", shorn, 3. Jul 2003 05:24 | ||
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| So true. Even though "robofold" makes more money, it was fun to get in there with 96o and mix it up in the good old days! | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", 4 POKER, 3. Jul 2003 05:44 | ||
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| I've got an even worse hand (actually, THE worst hand). I don't know why I chose to play this hand, but I was sitting in a $7.50 15.00 holdem game in AC with 7-2o. (not that the offsuit really matters) but anyway.... I am always perceived as being a pretty tight/solid whatever player. I'm dealt 7-2o UTG and raise it! It comes back to me at 3 bets and three of us take the flop. Yes I called, of course I called. The flop came up 7-7-K rainbow. I check-raised the original preflop raiser (button). The middle guy folded and he just called my raise. The turn was the pukey K which I hated but bet into him again. He called me! No raise, just call. The river was a J, I checked thinking that if he had the K, I was beat and there wouldn't be too many other possible holdings for him to call me had I did decide to bet. I checked and he checked and I can't believe he turned his cards up first showing me A-J. Now grant it,my raise preflop was brutal.I had did it for fun basically and all he said was, I can't believe YOU raised with that! I was so close to saying, I can't believe you CALLED the TURN with A-J, but I couldn't say it and I didn't. He shook his head and just was amazed that I would make such an irratical raise with such trash. What's the point here?....... It really was pretty darn fun! Ah yes, the old days. Uh, I mean, last year! (LOL) 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", shorn, 3. Jul 2003 06:12 | ||
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| Wow...that is pretty ugly. Probably won you a crap load of $$ later in the day when you used that image. What made you raise with that UTG?? And then call thge three-bet??!!!! These kinds of pots will reinforce bad behavior when they win. But you are right...they are fun to laugh about! | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", 4 POKER, 5. Jul 2003 07:46 | ||
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| on 3. Jul 2003 06:12 shorn wrote: > Wow...that is pretty ugly. Probably won you a crap load of $$ later in the day when you used that image. What made you > raise with that UTG?? And then call thge three-bet??!!!! These kinds of pots will reinforce bad behavior when they > win. But you are right...they are fun to laugh about! Shorn, To answer your first question.....I have no idea! I just felt like it. But once I raise with it, it doesn't matter if someone 3 bets it, I'm still going to look at the flop. I know the hand is crap but for one extra bet, I'm callin'. 'Wasn't even on tilt either, just presenting a really wild image to the table and believe me, they were all shocked! But when the 2nd King hit on the turn?....I said, "Good, you deserve it"....but my hand was still good, I couldn't believe it! (LOL). Believe me, in All my years of playing poker, I can probably count on one hand how many times I actually raised UTG with a hand like 7-2o! (Had it been 8-2, I wouldn't have done it....it had to be the absolute trashiest hand of all)! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", chasepoker, 5. Jul 2003 07:17 | ||
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| If i remember correctly doesnt the story go that the daughter of the casino owner had a week to learn how to play from scratch and so hence the " system ". Further to this i think you can infer from the book that he only demonstrates the system not as a workable way to win the big one but more as an illustration of the problems of having No Limit games as the decider of who is the " world champion " and that maybe limit games would produce a more worthy " champion " ( if there can be such a thing in a one off game ") Coming back to your original question though i have built up a nice bankroll over about 6 months playing mainly the sit and gos's on line ( $30 and below ) the key to them i think is to them ( No Limit games anyway ) is only play solid poker for the opening 40 or so hands ( the blinds arent worth stealing !) and only play Big A's pocket pairs and if you can limp or get in cheap with suited connectors then ok. You will find that people are all too willing to call bets when yo have good hands and the same applies to when you are bluffing ( they WILL call !!!! ) so play tight early Just my 2 pence worth. Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 08:38 | ||
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| Personally, I think that system is full of crap. It won't take you deep enough into the tourney ... all it will let you do is get you close to the money if you are really lucky and bust you out early if you are not. I respect Sklansky, but I think this system was so much wishful thinking for him. I think that he got jealous of the "move in artists" and decided to try to emulate their system, but with rigid rules. Knowing when to push all in cannot be defined by math like that - it is a subtle science. | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", MozMan, 4. Jul 2003 11:02 | ||
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| If I remember right from the article, Sklansky acknowledges just what you said. He claims it's a good system to take you to a certain point into the tourney and give you enough chips to move on; but then you have to change your play and get away from the system as the number of players dwindles and the field gets more solid. -Moz "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." | ||
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| Re: NLHE - Sklansky "The System", Tex, 4. Jul 2003 12:01 | ||
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| Actually, you might want to read the chapter in the Tournament Hold'em book. The "rich father" used the simplified system in a $2000 buy-in event during the WSOP to test it out and made it to the final table only to bust out because he *deviated* from the system. I won't claim that means squat about whether the system is good or bad, but it is interesting nonetheless. | ||
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