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Server Time: 8/29/2008 9:43:04 PM PACIFIC |
 Flipped cards, MozMan, 2. Jul 2003 15:41 | ||
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| Last night, I'm playing 4-8 HE at my B&M. I'm the SB, get QsTs, I'm watching the table, considering limping in. UTG calls the blind, UTG+1 calls, then three raises in a row to cap. So, I'm thinking, no way I'm calling that much action with QsTs, and toss my cards toward the center. Just then, the dealer is moving his hand toward me to indicate it's my action, and my cards hit his hand and flip over. Immediately I'm getting a lot of crap from several players about mucking a "strong" hand. I protest that the hand is marginal and not worth a calling 3.5 bets cold. Sure enuf, the flop comes TT7. The turn and river were rags, and the winning hand was an AK (for a pair of Tens with an Ace kicker). He was the capper. The other raisers that showed down were KQs and QJo... I never saw the original raiser's hand, he mucked to a flop bet. So of course, the ragging continued; "See you woulda won that," that kind of thing. I still maintain my fold was correct. What do you guys think? Am I off-base? -Moz "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, 4 POKER, 2. Jul 2003 16:02 | ||
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| Your fold is absolutely correct but your explanations to the table is not needed. Don't tell them how you play and why you didn't play it; just let it go. Let them say whatever they want to and keep in mind, many times a player will ask you why you did a certain thing just to try and gain information from you. They may have played the hand the same way (in this case, folding), but they still may try to "egg you on" just for info, so don't give it to them. And how many times have we all flopped monsters if only we woulda called before the flop? Wow...that huge pot could have been mine! That's leaves no excuse for playing a marginal hand for a capped bet before the flop. You know you did the right thing, Moz....just don't try and educate any of them by preventing them from possibly making future mistakes. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, MozMan, 2. Jul 2003 16:10 | ||
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| Good point. I took the razzing kinda personally and got too emotionally involved in it. I just couldn't believe they actually suggested I should be playing it! Really kinda pissed me off. Usually, I'm pretty good about not talking poker at the table... unless I'm fishing for info, that is! ;) Guess I was just caught off-guard. Live and learn, right? -Moz "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, 4 POKER, 2. Jul 2003 16:30 | ||
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| Moz, Absolutely. We have all been there, myself included. And it usually happens when you're losing too! You say, Shxx, if only I had played that hand I coulda been even....damn it! But I guess if they were really serious about thinking that you were crazy for folding that Q-10, then now you really know just how loose this game is, right? (LOL). Don't get pissy 'cause they razzed you, be thankful they're in your game!!!! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, David R, 3. Jul 2003 10:14 | ||
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| If I respond to a person questioning my play I usually just say the "karma" wasn't with me on that hand. At that point they believe I am a total moron and they tend to play weaker against me on subsequent hands. DRich | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 08:45 | ||
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| I like the, "I just had a bad feeling about this hand," excuse. | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, Paul Stine, 2. Jul 2003 21:17 | ||
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| on 2. Jul 2003 15:41 MozMan wrote: > Last night, I'm playing 4-8 HE at my B&M. I'm the SB, get QsTs, I'm watching the > table, considering limping in. > > UTG calls the blind, UTG+1 calls, then three raises in a row to cap. So, I'm > thinking, no way I'm calling that much action with QsTs, and toss my cards > toward the center. Just then, the dealer is moving his hand toward me to > indicate it's my action, and my cards hit his hand and flip over. > > Immediately I'm getting a lot of crap from several players about mucking a > "strong" hand. I protest that the hand is marginal and not worth a calling 3.5 > bets cold. > > Sure enuf, the flop comes TT7. The turn and river were rags, and the winning > hand was an AK (for a pair of Tens with an Ace kicker). He was the capper. The > other raisers that showed down were KQs and QJo... I never saw the original > raiser's hand, he mucked to a flop bet. > > So of course, the ragging continued; "See you woulda won that," that kind of > thing. I still maintain my fold was correct. What do you guys think? Am I > off-base? > > -Moz > > "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." You reaped a tremendous (tight) image play by having your hand exposed and then destroyed it by defending it. Oh the humanity! You should have just looked embarassed to be (thought) so tight and benefitted from your steal raises later on. I would have folded the hand in a NY minute. Almost any flop that comes would look scary, unless it was QQQ, TTT, QQT, TTX or a flopped straight. Even a flopped straight (except maybe J98) would feel very vunerable. Savor, nurture and protect your tight (or loose) image in the eyes of your opponents, especially if it is inaccurate. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 08:44 | ||
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| I like your assessment there Paul, but the flush potential of that hand makes it reasonable to call here. I'm not saying that I would necessarilly call, but I'm saying that it wouldn't be unreasonable to do so. You have enough players stuck in the hand that your broadway suited one-gappers can play here. Of course being very out of position doesn't help you in the slightest. | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, shorn, 3. Jul 2003 04:37 | ||
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| I agree with Paul here. Your best play would have been to act really dumb and said something like "Damn, i usually play that all the time! I will never fold that again." You could probably have run the table over after what happened, bluffing your A off the whole time. Next time. | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 08:42 | ||
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| I think that there is nothing wrong with folding those cards there, but there were enough players married to the hand to give you odds to call and look to hit your hand very very hard. Basically you want a flush or nut striaght or 2 pair, trips, etc. Even there, hitting 2 queens is dangerous and hitting 2 tens isn't perfect. The other thing is that the pot will be so huge, you know you'll be stuck to the hand like glue unless the flop misses you completely. So the long and short of it, I would say, is that neither folding nor calling is a mistake, either can be done correctly, but that the much safer thing to do is fold and wait for a better opportunity. | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, Scrubbie, 4. Jul 2003 11:55 | ||
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| Moz baby, All you need to do is look at the first person who opened his/her yap and say ... Tell you what there Chief, I won't tell you how to play "your" chips, if you don't tell me how to play "other people's" chips!!!!!!! That should put them somewhere between steaming and tilt. (Woo Hoo) After that the rest of the table will pipe up! P.S. - Nostradamus himself couldn't have predicted that two tens were going to hit that table!!! More likely a Queen would have come down and you would have been all but drawing dead!!! Scrubbie "The comforting thing about a bad beat .... there is always another one waiting around the corner, to make you forget about that last one!!!" | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, MozMan, 4. Jul 2003 12:10 | ||
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| I like that. I got a pretty good one off last night, tho. Had KQo in the BB and saw the flop for free with two other limpers (UTG and a MP player). The flop came KKQ. I checked the flop, the next guy checked and the cutoff bet; we both called (I wanted to get some bigger bets out of them). Then the turn comes the case K; so I check again, guy next me bets out, and the cutoff raises; so I make it 3 bets, and the next guy caps it; so I put him on a Q, maybe AQ or QJ... the original raiser calls the last two bets, but very reluctantly... River comes a rag and I bet out, guy next to me raises and the MP player folds. I reraise, and now this guy's wondering what I'm doing, so he just calls. I show down the quads with the Q-kicker, and he turns over AQ and says, "You slow-played me!" I said, "Huh?" He says, "You flopped the boat and turn four kings and slow-played both of them!" So I said, "I didn't know they were good hands. I never played this game before." That's when he called me a lying sack-o-s***. It was all good-natured tho; tongue-in-cheeck. He actually followed up with a compliment on my play after that exchange. -Moz "My name is Homer. I'm only here 'cause the court made me come." | ||
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| Re: Flipped cards, stdioh, 4. Jul 2003 14:32 | ||
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| I love it when I convince somebody that I've never played before. A couple of sessions ago I had the following happen: UTG is a BBPP (bad bad poker player) and raises, it folds to me in the BB and I defend with medium suited connectors (78 I think). I flop the tight and check, he bets, I call. Turn is a 3 and I checkraise him (he was a bit maniacal so I knew it would work), he goes three, I go 4, he goes 5, I go 6 (and I have the lock - so no quads for him) - he calls. River brings another little pig ... something like a 5. I bet, he raises, I 3-bet and he moans, "Oh! You got there with that piece of crap card," and calls. "I had you beat until the river," he proudly states. I show my hand. "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING PLAYING THAT GARBAGE HEADS UP?" "I don't know," says I, "I think that 78 suited is a good hand." "NO. You can't play that garbage like that. You need big cards heads up." "Oh. Sorry. It's my first day. I thought I was doing pretty good." He bought it of course, figured that he was educating the table, piped down, and started being really nice to me ... being nice to the fish ... heheheh. Personally, I love defending the BB with suited connectors. If you hit the monster you never get credit for it and always get paid off well and because you can put him on a raising hand, you have a much better chance to get away from losing hands that look ok otherwise and profit from winning hands that would look good to him. Long story short, the good players don't put in that much money, the adequate players say "nice hand (moron)" and move on, but the shouters and bellyachers are the greatest. Gimmie them any day of the week. | ||
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