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Server Time: 9/4/2008 10:23:44 PM PACIFIC |
 have you noticed this., mongi, 2. Jul 2003 12:12 | ||
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| I have noticed a trend. Whenever a good tight aggressive player raises from EP and then gets bet into by another good tight aggressive player from one of the blinds on the flop and the flop is pretty ragged like 7d 5h 2c; the blind player almost always has at least two pair. Now this isn't always the case; the blind could have something like top pair top kicker, an overpair, or maybe even a straight draw but oftentimes his bet is telling you he can beat you big pair. This happened to me the other night four times and I have noticed this in other scenarios. When this happens and you have a pretty good read of the player do you still raise in order to protect your hand if there are other people still in? You wouldn't fold because even if you are beat now you still have outs. The guy mixed it up pretty well against me on two occassions he reraised my flop raise with his two pair and on two occassions he flat called me. I think he extracted the most money from me when he would reraise the flop and then bet out the rest of the way. He knew that I was capable of laying my hand down if he check-raised me on the turn. On all four occassions I paid him off. Is there anything different I should do here? Would you always pay him off assuming the board was never too scary? from his perspective what do you think would be the best way for him to play this. | ||
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| Re: have you noticed this., NiceFella, 2. Jul 2003 18:04 | ||
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| What sort of good tight player flops two pair when the board comes 7 5 2 after a preflop raise? If there are a lot of players on the flop, what you're seeing is the fact that you need a good hand to bet into a lot of players. Two pair is a good hand. If the big blind had any less, he'd probably check. Heads-up, it's a whole different game. Big blind vs. preflop raiser is a tricky business. When I am in the big blind and heads-up with a preflop raiser, I am inclined to bet out if I catch any piece of the flop at all. If the board comes very ragged or scary (paired or 3 flush) I'll often bet out on a complete bluff. I know the preflop raiser is going to bet anyway if I check, so I usually just bet out if I would have called. If I don't get raised, I usually bet again on the turn. I have bought a lot of small pots this way. When you're the preflop raiser, laying down a big overpair is almost impossible when you're heads up. It's frustrating because you have basically no idea what the big blind is holding, and it's very difficult to find out. On the other hand, the big blind knows almost exactly what you have. I'm inclined to say that if you raised before the flop with a big pair, you are about an 80% favorite to win the hand if only the big blind calls. Sometimes the big blind will get lucky and take a lot of money from you. If it's truly obvious you're beaten then you can lay down, but I see a lot of raiser-vs.-blind hands going to the river every time. Better luck, NiceFella | ||
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| Re: have you noticed this., mongi, 3. Jul 2003 00:36 | ||
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| I don't think calling a raise from the big blind with something like 5 7 suited if there are multiple people in the pot is a bad play. | ||
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| Re: have you noticed this., 4 POKER, 3. Jul 2003 00:46 | ||
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| I just want to answer the part about, "what good, solid player would flop two pair when the board read 7-5-2 with a pre-flop raise out of the big blind"? Many solid players will call a raise with a holding like medium suited connectors, even out of the big blind. With multiple callers I think it can be correct to play a hand like that one as long as you are capable of releasing it if you don't flop really strong and are going to get paid off with it when you do hit it. If the player is solid, than he/she will know how to handle that play and will be less inclined to make a costly mistake. Solid players can enter more pots because they simply do play their hands better. 4 POKER | ||
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