|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 2/13/2012 3:55:32 AM PACIFIC |
 2nd Omaha8 Hand, mroban, 1. Jul 2003 12:58 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Was almost identical situation to the first below. Only difference was that I had 2d-3d-Ks-Qc. I made a pot sized raise this time UTG. Tight/weak called, 3rd seat folded, and two loose callers called. I was praying for an Ace and the flop came Ad-3s-5d. Nice. I make another pot sized raise, and get two callers, with tight weak allin and a side pot created between myself and the dealer (the loosest of the two loose players who generally just likes to call pots. Half of the bet went into the side pot, so the side pot is now a decent size. River card is a Qd. So now I have nut low draw, draw to a full house, and draw to 2nd best flush. I make a side pot raise and I am called (again, unreal). River card is a 5c. I check, he checks. Tight/weak has 55533 for a full house and takes the main pot. Dealer show me a 5 with nothing else for 555. Unbelievably, I cannot beat that. Did I misplay this hand or did the river just destroy me (again)? Question is whether another pot sized raise would have caused him to fold. The 5 was a serious scare card since I was so obviously beat. I just couldn't get myself to push my stack in to see if he would call the bluff. This is a guy that is almost impossible to bluff out of a pot, you just have to make him pay (and he pays me off alot). | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: 2nd Omaha8 Hand, Big_Slick, 1. Jul 2003 13:41 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hey mroban, I want to respond but I think there is a mistake in your post. Read it through and let me know!! | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: 2nd Omaha8 Hand, 4 POKER, 1. Jul 2003 17:57 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hey mroban, I think you have given us the wrong flop here! (check it out). I know that you meant to write that you had flopped a wheel draw, I know that, trust me, BUT.... why are you making it so expensive for yourself with this holding preflop? Is this pot limit, too? In pot limit, even the premium starting hands are often left by just a "call "preflop in hoping to trap someone or get off of it real cheap when they don't flop as good as they wanted to. That is how money is made in Pot limit Omaha. You see, if this was pot limit hold-em, it would be different because two Aces(example) in this game is a huge hand. However, in pot limit Omaha, believe it or not... even holding the most premiun hand of all (A-A-2-3 double suited) is not even that much of a favorite over a random hand. Yes, it is a favorite and should be raised and reraised in limit, but my point is.... in Omaha8 and we're talking pot limit now, because there are so many combinational hands, you are still trying to see the flop at a relatively low price and would much rather put in those big substantial bets when you DO flop or turn an absoloute monster. That is how and where you make money in this game. And although there are hands that I myself will raise with in PLO, I still tend to make sure that I am in perfect position in doing so...regardless of my holding and its strength. To be honest with you, I wouldn't put in more than I had to with your hand preflop and unless I was on the small blind, I don't think I would even be making a call here preflop unless there were a lot of players in already, the price was just going to cost me the smallest amount possible, AND...unless I FLOP the nut-low, or at least flop the nut low draw and are able to see the turn card really cheap, I would not continue with this hand any longer. I see that you made this inferior holding expensive for youself again (preflop/and flop).........WHY? I think you may need a better understanding of the game. It's not easy, it took me a long time as well to understand and that was just limit Omaha....Pot limit took me another 6 months or so to grasp. The two forms of Omaha are much different from each other and you must be aware of the money that P/L can cost you. If you play the game a little bit more, you will discover for yourself just how quickly the pot can go from being say, $3 to $200 in a matter of seconds, and when you're on a drawing hand, those bets will add up so fast that before you know it.....you could be dead broke. Trust me, it happens and in any form of pot limit, the money that one one person can lose is almost inconceivable considering how small the blinds were and all. This is where so many people lose their hard earned money and I know for myself, that after playing this style of poker for a year on-line.(and I did ok with it)...I'd still rather play limit Omaha and not have that risk and pressure when it comes to my bankroll. But, if you do chose to keep playing pot limit, just make sure that you fully understand it.....PLEASE. Be careful....... I'm telling you this because I have played PLO many times on-line, I have seen what can happen.......... and I care. 4 POKER | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: 2nd Omaha8 Hand, Schuster, 1. Jul 2003 22:51 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| 4 Poker, I'm doing what I can to learn Omaha, and a lot of it has been coming from Steve Badger's site. He suggests raising before the flop with strong hands if there are already a good amount of callers in with you. Is this a difference of play style, or just a difference in pot limit vs fixed limit? Thanks for the great Omaha advice so far. Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: 2nd Omaha8 Hand, plizak, 2. Jul 2003 07:13 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| > I'm doing what I can to learn Omaha, and a lot of it has been coming > from Steve Badger's site. He suggests raising before the flop with > strong hands if there are already a good amount of callers in with you. First, 23KQ is not a strong hand. Second, the poster raised UTG, you don't have *ANY* callers yet, and, you have horrible, horrible position. Position is more powerful in pot/no limit. From original post: "Was almost identical situation to the first below. Only difference was that I had 2d-3d-Ks-Qc. I made a pot sized raise this time UTG. Tight/weak called, 3rd seat folded, and two loose callers called. " | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: 2nd Omaha8 Hand, 4 POKER, 2. Jul 2003 08:28 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Schuster, Actually, there are many hands that you can and should raise with in Omaha 8, but do keep in mind that limit plays much different than pot limit and what I would suggest is to not commit too many chips with a hand until you see the flop when you're playing pot limit Omaha. Your position plays a more important role in pot limit and if you are UTG with a premium starting hand you may chose to limp in with it opposed to raising it just to try and trap an opponent. If there are many callers in already than you could raise but it wouldn't be mandatory that you did that either. Most of the costly mistakes in P/L Omaha are made from the flop on(betting and/or calling big bets with a drawing hand when your own hand does not provide you with enough outs to win the whole pot or to get the right price to even consider drawing to half). When you play P/L Omaha, the same player who will limp in with A-A-3-K (for example), is the same player who is going to be willing to slow play the flop as well and try to trap. So you must make sure that when you do commit to betting the flop or calling a bet on the flop, that you yourself have a very strong hand or at least an incredible draw to both sides of the pot because if you bet a certain amount and than another player comes over the top of you, you will have to make an important decision to whether your hand has enough potential to continue and you also have to calculate how much the turn card may cost you if you don't hit the card that you were looking to hit. (that's why it's so important to make the perfect decision on the flop). "How much money am I willing to put in on the flop with my hand and am I going to be willing to throw it away on the turn if I don't hit good, and if I still feel that I SHOULD continue, how much is that TURN CARD going to cost me"? That's why the bet, the call, the raises that are made on the FLOP are crucial in pot limit because it is right then and there where the pot can grow to an amazing size; a size that you yourself may not even be aware of at the very moment. Also, on the turn, if your hand is not made in at least one direction (high or low), you will have to consider once again, what is going to be the best decision for me? This is where your really quick mathematical skills/odds are really going to come in handy....actually, it's downright demanding of you to have those skills. You can also chose to play your strong hands aggresively PRE-FLOP. But, you must be a strong and disciplined enough player to also have the ability to throw it away too...especially in a pot limit game. It really depends on what style you think fits you best right now and what type of play will work better for you. (example, if you're a little uncertain about P/L, you're probably going to be better off with limping in more opposed to raising and when you do flop good, you may want to try and induce a bet from somebody else and than on the turn and even on the river you could commit your stack by either raising, check-raising or just betting it yourself). You see, when a player never makes a big bet preflop, and than he doesn't make a move on the flop, it's harder to put him on a real strong hand and that is when and why so many players have fallen into the trap of this trappy-type player. Just develop a style of play that will make you feel the most comfortable with pot limit and remember, the hands that you can raise with in pot limit should be used with discression and your position really does matter even more here as well. And leave those questionable starting hands for limping in purposes only. I myself will limp in more often in P/L than I would in limit Omaha because I'm looking to flop a monster, and if I don't flop absolutely perfect, I'm outta there, period. I will limp in with JJ-99, where as in limit Omaha I wouldn't put in one chip with that hand because there really isn't going to be any value to playing it. But in P/L, there is. As Long as you are able to know when to throw it away and that even means when you flop a set and you're taking too much heat with your hand having to call a substantial size bet. But if you are a strong flop player, than you will definitely be able to play more of the inferior holdings, pre-flop. Just remember, with those types of hands and with alot of your other hands as well (even the decent starters), you want to get in really cheap preflop.....that's very important. Leave the real heavy betting preflop for the really strong premium hands and make sure you are in great position so you can have the advantage of controlling the betting rounds. Now, if you're in a very favorable position and have a really powerful starting hand, than, yes, you want to be putting extra money into the pot now, but when you're just starting out, my advice would be to play just a little bit more conservatively preflop, get a good feel of the game and your opponents, try and pick up on the costly mistakes that you have seen them make and pay close attention to the player/s who are making what appears to be, the correct betting strategies and the other elements that fall into playing really good pot limit. 4 POKER | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: 2nd Omaha8 Hand, Schuster, 2. Jul 2003 11:21 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks for the detailed post, 4 POKER! I'm concentrating on limit only right now, pot limit is a bit much for just a beginner. But I appreciate the answer and will definately tuck it into the back of my mind for when I do expand to pot limit. Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: 2nd Omaha8 Hand, 4 POKER, 2. Jul 2003 12:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 2. Jul 2003 11:21 Schuster wrote: > Thanks for the detailed post, 4 POKER! I'm concentrating on limit only right now, pot limit is a > bit much for just a beginner. But I appreciate the answer and will definately tuck it into the back > of my mind for when I do expand to pot limit. > > Lee Great, I hope you enjoy the game as much as I have. Best of luck to you and may you say "nut-nut" every chance you get! 4 POKER | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: 2nd Omaha8 Hand, mroban, 2. Jul 2003 05:09 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Again, a great posting. I was going from memory in describing the hand, so I will reread and see if I made a mistake. If I did, the spirit was the same. I had a 2-3-Q-K and was hoping the A flopped so I would have a nut low. Anyway, as a limit player, I am very new to Pot Limit and your postings are invaluable. I am also reading Cloutier's book, and that is very helpful as well. thanks again guys. This was incredible. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|