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Server Time: 8/20/2008 4:42:00 AM PACIFIC |
 I Think I Missed a Bet, PairTheBoard, 27. Jun 2003 13:16 | ||
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| I was in a 5-10 Holdem game at Party Poker when I was dealt KK in early-mid postiion. A player to my right who liked to raise made it 10 to go. I reraised, she just called, and I went heads up with her - I like to think of all my opponents as naked women when playing online. Flop came J,9,rag. I think she check and called. Turn came another rag. She check raised me, I reraised, and she capped it. That worried me. I put her on a probable set of Jacks at that point and figured I'd just call her on the River. Now an Ace comes on the River. I'm expecting Her to bet it out but she thinks for a few moments and just checks. I am befuddled. Was she trying to check raise me again? Could she be that devious? Did she put me on AK or AJ and bound to bet the river so She could check raise me again? Did she have AJ and if so why not bet it out? Did she have a set of Jacks and was afriad I'd hit a set of Aces? My time was running low and I decided I'd had enough, so I checked it. After all, the Ace would normally be a card that hurt my hand of KK. Can you determine from this information what she had and whether I missed a bet? | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, shorn, 27. Jun 2003 13:49 | ||
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| I don't think you missed a bet on the river. Anyone who is willing to cap it on the turn after you 3-bet the flop and turn has got top pair/top kicker beaten for sure (so no AJ). You have to put her on JJ-AA. When the A came and she checked, you can most likely eliminate AA, but, she could have been trying to be sneaky and representing an underpair to AA (and not JJ). That that leaves JJ-KK. You have KK, so the likelihood of her having that hand is very small. I doubt that she would check a set of Jacks on the river even when the Ace fell, so I have to put her on QQ or AA. Given all of the strength she has shown I would check it down and hope for QQ. | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, stdioh, 27. Jun 2003 13:51 | ||
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| First of all, I think your three bet into a checkraise here was insane. It is ok to be out of position with a big overpair, bet, get raised and three bet, but when you get checkraised, it almost certainly means that your opponent has 2 pair or better. You can call there, but three betting invites her to cap, which she did. At this point you look like you are being played like a fiddle, though it could be that she holds something like an up/down straight draw and a flush draw, etc. What do you mean when you say rags then? Was there a straight already possible maybe? So now you should really be in running scared mode. There are some players that I would fold to when the board didn't pair and I hit no set and there are some players that I would call down, but I don't think you should be agressing at this point. Yes, checking the river was essential. There are very few hands that she could have that she would pay you off with on the river and a large number that she could call and beat you with. Obviously she's turned down the juice since you pumped in a raise to her checkraise too - so I think that there is really nothing to do here but check the river ... unless you see her eyebrow twitching or something :) | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, shorn, 27. Jun 2003 13:53 | ||
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| The only think I disagree with here is that she could have Checkraised with AJ here or QQ, so I don't think the 3-bet is too out of line. When she caps it however, then you are in trouble. | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, Big_Slick, 27. Jun 2003 17:44 | ||
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| First of all, I think your three bet into a checkraise here was insane. I would normally agree with you, but have you seen the players that fill the seats at Party Poker? I swear the 5/10 players are worse than the 3/6 players. I've seen people raise UNG with A-6o and J-Qo. Player poker there is like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get! | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, PairTheBoard, 27. Jun 2003 14:06 | ||
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| Let me add that I'd been agressively betting AK after the flop even when I missed it. Remember, she capped the turn, yet checked the River when the Ace came. She was on the lead, then checked. Why would she do that? Hard to believe she would check with 3 Aces. Also, hard to believe she would raise before the flop with anything like J9. She was not that frequent a raiser. She could have had a set of Jacks or maybe a set of 9's or maybe even hit a set on the Turn. Ok, maybe she could have been on a set and worried I'd hit a set of Aces on the River. If you were in her shoes with a set would you check the river when the Ace came? Also, there's a wrinkle here in that with the turn capped by her she had no information on whether I would have liked to raise again. | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, mongi, 27. Jun 2003 14:39 | ||
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| It sounds like she flopped trips, slowplayed the flop, check-raised you on the turn knowing you would bet then raised again feeling confident she had a winner. When the Ace hit the river she probably thought " well he three bet before the flop and three bet my check-raise, he may have pocket aces". I can't imagine she would bet that aggressively with QQ or AJ. I would have just called the check-raise and checked the river. | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, Roy Cooke, 27. Jun 2003 15:02 | ||
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| It depends on the texture of the player....If the player has put you on AA and would check a set in that spot, I might check that hand...That is usually not the case and your Kings are generally good in that spot....So unless your opponent was of the scared texture...I would bet my Kings. Part of the problem might be that you imagine your oponents are naked women and you are not focused on the game :-) Roy Cooke on 27. Jun 2003 13:16 PairTheBoard wrote: > I was in a 5-10 Holdem game at Party Poker when I was dealt KK in early-mid > postiion. A player to my right who liked to raise made it 10 to go. I reraised, > she just called, and I went heads up with her - I like to think of all my > opponents as naked women when playing online. Flop came J,9,rag. I think she > check and called. Turn came another rag. She check raised me, I reraised, and > she capped it. That worried me. I put her on a probable set of Jacks at that > point and figured I'd just call her on the River. Now an Ace comes on the River. > I'm expecting Her to bet it out but she thinks for a few moments and just > checks. I am befuddled. Was she trying to check raise me again? Could she be > that devious? Did she put me on AK or AJ and bound to bet the river so She could > check raise me again? Did she have AJ and if so why not bet it out? Did she have > a set of Jacks and was afriad I'd hit a set of Aces? My time was running low and > I decided I'd had enough, so I checked it. After all, the Ace would normally be > a card that hurt my hand of KK. > > Can you determine from this information what she had and whether I missed a > bet? | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, Piers Majestyk, 27. Jun 2003 15:19 | ||
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| I'll put her on a pair of 8's and making a play on you as having AK and figuring she had you beat until the A hit. That's probably a stretch but I have pulled that play in the past against certain opponents. | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, PairTheBoard, 27. Jun 2003 18:43 | ||
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| LOL @ Roy. I'm thinking of putting a note in Party Poker's suggestion box, asking them to supply us with a menu of different Player Pictures we can choose for ourselves and our opponents - Gender and Clothing optional would be nice. I think I probably did miss a bet here. If she was timidly checking a set in fear of being against 3 aces then my value bet loses. If she actually has the gall to try to check raise me again, thinking I reraised the turn with AK and would bet with the Ace on the river, then I lose a couple of bets - I would call the check raise. But I think by far the most likely hand she can have is the only one that really makes sense with respect to her betting. She had seen me bet AK all the way and wanted to punish me for it with her check raise on the turn and/or put me on AJ. She saw her play turn to dust with the Ace on the river and checked. If she had KK she would have capped it before the flop. The hand she had to have was the hand she showed. QQ. I should have bet it. | ||
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| Re: I Think I Missed a Bet, shorn, 27. Jun 2003 19:57 | ||
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| Cool...so I read it right in the first place. I still think u check. If u bet and she raises, then what do you do? | ||
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| Like Deja Vu Again, PairTheBoard, 27. Jun 2003 22:09 | ||
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| Well, this seemed kind of funny to me. I got into almost exactly the same situation again today, except this time I was in the other role. I had 88 near the button with one weak caller in front of me. I raised and was reraised by a fairly good player on the button. The blinds and weak caller folded and I just called. The flop came J,8,4. I check called, planning to check raise the turn. The turn came 10, I check raised, he reraised and I capped it - I had this thread in the back of my mind right about now. The river came a King. I was already thinking maybe I had overplayed it with the cap on the turn, and with the King out there I saw a lot of possible hands that could beat me. So I checked. He hesitated a bit - I think he was as puzzled by my check as I was in the post that started this thread. What do you suppose he did? He bet it. I called. He showed 10-10. He hit his set on the turn just as I was springing my little "trap" on him. LOL. Of course, his set of 10's in this case was quite a bit better than my two Kings in the previous example. I can tell you this though. When the King came on the river I certainly was not checking with the intention of making another check raise! | ||
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