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Server Time: 8/29/2008 12:00:58 AM PACIFIC |
 NL Holdem sit n go strategy, palman, 27. Jun 2003 01:44 | ||
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| Here's my strategy in the sit n go's. I'm relatively new in poker, and this is by far my best game. So as of now, I'm doing them exclusively (30 dollar level) in order to build up my bankroll enough to which I can afford the learning pains of other games (tried ring games and I'm just not a winner there yet, and don't have the bankroll to learn to be) While I'm pretty happy with my success at the sit n go's (actually deposited 100 bucks at party poker, and proceeded to cash in 13 of my first 16, cashed out and now I'm building off the white meat) I figure there are always insights that I don't have that could help. Most of my insights are general tournament strategy rather than betting strategies, etc. I started off liking them because you can gamble, bluff, etc and it was entertaining (a few months ago when I played them on paradise) And then for some reason I just tried being a lot less aggressive. During the first 2-3 rounds of the sit n go's.... I wont play anything but premium hands (AA, KK, AK, or decent sized suited cards or connectors) In the early stages... hands like KJo or K10o that most people will pay 15 bucks to see a flop, end up hurting more than helping. They are never strong enough if say a K flops to be confident they are the best, yet are good enough to tempt you to call bets when you're beat. They are basically hands that you'll either win a little with or lose alot with. Anything under Ace 10 I often don't even call with unless its dirt cheap. And I dont even like calling A10o. The only time I make marginal calls are if they are cheap, and thats only on occasion, and I'm completely prepared to much mid pair or even top pair, I just do it to not look TOO tight so I can still get paid off on rockets the first few rounds of the tourney. But early stages I will see flush draws, every single pair in an attempt to set(assuming not raised too badly) ESPECIALLY in last position. (I raise a lot (but a small raise)on the flop even if I don't hit my set, so I can get a free card on 4th street. This play works the best if the flop comes down as say JJ6 and you hold 88. someone holding a jack will likely slowplay it, you make a small bet on the flop, and you'll often see the river for free. (him just letting you bet for him to eventually check-raise) Odds are against it hitting, but you'll double up if you do) My general philosophy is this, I try to "gamble" as little as possible. Being in enough pots where you are 60/40 favorites is recipe for disaster. By the time I ever put any significant part of my stack in jeapordy (unless I have the nuts) 10 is already down to 7. I try to get in pots with other medium stacks. Chipleaders are usually harder to bluff out of a pot (but re-raising their obvious attempts to steal pots still must happen every once in a while), and the small stacks are just going to put you all in way too often its just a crapshoot, and as I said, I don't want to "gamble" even if I am a slight to medium favorite. I certainly have NO desire to try to get the short stacks out of the game, since I think I am more patient than most, thus I'll wait till I have the hand and they're desperate to get their money. One of the strongest moves I use is "most people can bluff once, but dont bluff twice" If I'm committed to bluffing, I'm almost always ready to do it twice. Most people in NL give no credit to someone who bets preflop when they bet on the flop. That's why I don't slowplay hands I raise. Generally I dont slowplay much at all, since that is the greatest sign of strength, when you want action you'll find when you make your move, you wont get it unless you're beat. Only time I will is when I've got the absolute nuts and I want someone to catch a second best hand/bluff at it. when it gets down to 5 handed... I don't try to steal blinds as much as most players. Its such an expected move that it gets hardly any credit, and puts you in bad situations too often. I usually fold my first 2-3 times where its folded to me in the SB when we're at level 3-4, so that I CAN bluff when its later in the tournament(and worth more). This also lets them know that I'm not someone who just tries to steal the blinds, so if they re-raise, I can put them on a solid hand. The biggest thing I've learned (maybe its my limit and because its party poker) is that there is no reason to play loose so that your big hands get paid off. It doesnt matter how tight you play, you can still get plenty of action with your rockets that even risking chips to be seen as a loose player is a bad play (especially considering that means you'll just steal less pots later on) You may not get the action on level 2 or 3 when you get the good hand, but by playing uber tight, you almost ASSURE yourself to get down to 6 or 5, and when you get there, just continue to wait for the hands, and you'll get paid off, because its usually easy to get action when its shorthanded and either your opponnents have too many chips, or two few, inclining them to make marginal calls. When I still end up chipleader earlier, I give nothing away. Getting involved in a pot with someone with 500 chips when you have 2000 early on, almost has no point. You don't have enough to gain, since 2000 to 2500 doesn't mean much this early, whereas him doubling up means the world to him. And getting involved with the others with a lot of chips runs the risk of you getting broken when you have no need to risk anything. I figure if I'm the chipleader, I've already taken my chances to get in position to the cash top 3, why gamble any more when you already have achieved your goal. When you get down to 2 or 3 people, its so much of a crapshoot that the extra 500 chips early just don't mean much overall. This is why I don't try and bully the table (whereas I used to always try to bully the table, mainly because it was fun) Shorthanded strategy I think I'm decent at, but I have no real secrets or don't think I've figured out a definite strategy. The main thing I focus on is while I'm tempted to play looser, to remind myself to play tighter. But I also combine my tightness with aggressiveness. *note when I say "gamble" or "tight" I obviously still play the great hands, its just I play NOTHING marginal, and don't have the mindset that a small investment can have huge rewards if it hits. Any thoughts? Additions? Criticisms? | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go strategy, Andrew Wells, 27. Jun 2003 02:02 | ||
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| That seems like a reasonable approach. I might add a little more theivery when it gets down to four players as long as my stack can't be hurt too much. You might be a little more loose/aggressive when you have already made the money and hold the middle stack. Otherwise you have only to address those situations where you are shortstacked and one or two spots out of the money. | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go strategy, palman, 27. Jun 2003 11:05 | ||
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| well I definately do steal blinds when its down to 4 players. That's the main advantage of not stealing the blinds when there are 6 players, it allows you to do it more often when its down to 4 (which is for more money when the blinds are big) I guess my main realization is that I used to try to follow how people bet, and see if I can know when they're bluffing, and know when they've got a hand, and then try to make them pay when I think they're bluffing. The problem is if you're wrong just once you can be out of the tournament, so I basically just stopped trying to figure people out in that way (well I still try to figure them out, but I wont try to do anything about it until down to 4 or less) Heck to be honest, the first three rounds I hardly pay attention to the sit n go unless I'm in the pot. This isn't ideal I know, but I find the more I pay attention the more likely I am to play marginal hands early, whereas if I'm watching t.v. I don't mind being patient (this is an obvious flaw of mine, but I am new and patience isn't one of my virtues yet, so this helps for me) | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go strategy, chasepoker, 27. Jun 2003 04:40 | ||
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| To be honset mate if you are have placed in 13 out of 16 sit and go's i doubt you need any more advice that is pretty good going ! Keep it up if you win at that rate on $30 sit and gos you will not need to play ring games as you will be earning more per hour than you ever would playing in any ring game !!!!! Good job. Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go strategy, stdioh, 27. Jun 2003 08:19 | ||
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| In the early stages of a tournament I love limping with hands like suited connectors. When you're in a loose fishy tourney and you're getting 7 players on a hand you can get really paid off when you make a monster - since NL is the game of implied odds you can often milk a lot of money out of one of these hands for a very small initial investment. Though I agree in general that you should start out playing fairly tight. | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go strategy, Bond18, 27. Jun 2003 10:33 | ||
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| I agree with stdioh, first level i like to play practically (note practically) everything in late position when no raise, and a lot of other small suited connectors or suited one gappers in middle if not raised. Otherwise your strategy sounds good, especially if you money in 13 out of 16. I beleive my problem lately has been playing to aggressively (after being inspired by Gus Hansen) in a loose enviroment, which i've learned is not an effective strategy in sit n go's. Also you said you'd played Party and paradise, i've only played paradise, which site has better sit n go's in your opinion palman? | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go strategy, palman, 27. Jun 2003 11:01 | ||
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| I always will limp in with hands like suited connectors, pairs, etc, hands that if they hit, I'm pretty darn certain I've got the nuts. Hands that I DONT limp in with that I used to are hands like A8 or K10, since you either win a little or lose a lot with them. | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go payout?, DJpoker, 27. Jun 2003 11:46 | ||
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| Congrats on your early success. How long is the sit-n-go taking on average and is the payout for $30 - $120, $100, $80? or something else. When I observe the sit-n-gos it appears that you can fold every hand (good button hands, big blinds excluded) and move into 5th without even thinking about it, then u can start playing. Hope your rush (my poker lingo for the day) continues. | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go payout?, palman, 27. Jun 2003 14:34 | ||
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| pay 30 + 3(fee), winner gets 150, 2nd gets 90, 3rd gets 60. Basically what you're saying is correct, you can virtually sit there and get down to 6 or 5. And that may be just one of the better strategies. Well obviously my rush hasn't continued, nor did I expect to cash in 80% of the tournaments. But since the rush (the first day which netted 800) I've been doing them about 10 hours a day, and coming out on average $100 to $150 dollars up a day. The main causes of losing most of the time are doing things and taking risks I know I shouldnt be taking, but sometimes you just can't help it. As soon as I do one of those things I take a good break. | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go payout?, DJpoker, 27. Jun 2003 22:02 | ||
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| Thanks for the info. I was just wondering what you could expect. $15/hr isn't that bad, but couldn't you make more on the ring games? I'm still trying to figure out what a good hourly rate would be. I'm sure everyone has a different opinion. In socal where I live $15/hr won't cut it. Right now I make $40 hr at my regular job. The good thing is that my job is over at 2pm PST which will leave me plenty of time to play. I was curious as to your results because usually a tourney takes much longer and if you finish 4th it seems like a waste. I know, however, you won't always finish in top 3. I know it vares, but on average how many sit n gos do you play in your 10 hours? on 27. Jun 2003 14:34 palman wrote: > pay 30 + 3(fee), winner gets 150, 2nd gets 90, 3rd gets 60. > > Basically what you're saying is correct, you can virtually sit there and get down to 6 or > 5. And that may be just one of the better strategies. > > Well obviously my rush hasn't continued, nor did I expect to cash in 80% of the > tournaments. > > But since the rush (the first day which netted 800) I've been doing them about 10 hours > a day, and coming out on average $100 to $150 dollars up a day. The main causes of losing > most of the time are doing things and taking risks I know I shouldnt be taking, but > sometimes you just can't help it. As soon as I do one of those things I take a good > break. | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go payout?, palman, 28. Jun 2003 03:16 | ||
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| Well first of all, I don't have the skills to be a winner at the ring games, so this is pretty much my sole game at the moment. You can expect a profit mainly because No limit is the most "fun" game to play, which brings most of the amateurs into the game. They probably wont play ring No limit because you risk a good amount of money. Tournaments are also "fun" so what you end up with is a lot of people playing for fun, meaning often not playing well. When I first started online poker I did these right away mainly because they were fun. and I did many stupid things like looking to go all in with any pocket pair whenever I could whenever I Could, eventhough its a coinflip at best. Many people do this and other bad plays often. You'll have enough idiots going all in with k10o in the first level that it makes it profitable because they have virtually no chance of winning. My statistics are only on 4-5 days of doing it (say 50 sit n go's) so I dont know what you can derive from them. I had a GREAT streak when I first started, and now its basically I'm profitable, but slightly. I'm not working atm so have all day to play poker (minus breaks and whathave you) so I get 10 or so hours in a day, and I'm making about 100 bucks a day. I would say on one of my bad days I can see losing , but not DRASTICALLY, I dont see me losing 300 bucks in a day at the 30 dollar level. However its a better chance that I'll make 300 bucks in a day. Right now I'm just playing as much as I can assuming that I have a positive expectation and all the hours I put in whether win or lose I'm "making" money. | ||
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| Re: NL Holdem sit n go strategy, Tex, 28. Jun 2003 22:33 | ||
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| You are a friggin genius! :-) I decided to give it a try after reading your post (and having had a bad day in the ring game). Before tonight I had only tried the $5+$1 NL games for fun. I finished 4th in the first two $10+$1s I played. But then I went on a tear and placed in seven straight. It's amazing. In the first two I played tighter than Mother Teresa, but once I got a little confidence I and started playing agressive too I was dominating. It was amazing to watch people go all-in on the first hand with Q9o and other such stuff. It's also amazing to see people call all-in pre-flop reraises with stuff that is an obvious underdog to AA, KK, AK. And I agree completely with you when you say it's best to watch TV or something during the early rounds. Fold, Fold, Fold, limp-fold, fold, fold, fold, blind-check-all-in since flop hit hard, fold, fold ... then when it's down to 5 or 4 you can steal the hell out of the blinds. Of course you avoid confrontations in order to not finish 4th too. Let others put each other all-in. Finally, I've found in the final three that you can raise from the big blind with about anything when they just call. A decent bet on the flop (or another raise) pretty much guarentees a fold. Now if I could just figure out how to beat my neighbors in our weekly live game. Two guys are even more clueless than all the fish at Party Poker ... and I keep losing to their freak draws whether I play AA or crap. LOL! | ||
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