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Server Time: 2/13/2012 6:41:09 AM PACIFIC |
 Playing Shorthanded Tables Online, mroban, 24. Jun 2003 07:47 | ||
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| I just started playing at UB and have to say, the action is great. I love the 6 handed tables. Here is a strategy I employed yesterday to great effect (wonder if anyone else agrees): The table got to 4 people and rather than raising with Big Slick and QcJc (after UTG folded), I merely checked to the blinds. Both times the SB checked and the BB checked. First time, with Big Slick, flop came A-10-5 rainbow. SB bets out (I feel trying to steal through), BB checks, I call rather than raise, hoping to induce another bluff. Turn is a rag, SB bets, I raise, he re raises (at this point I put him on Ax or QT) I call. The river is a J but there are now 3 clubs on board. I don't feel he is on a flush draw, but am a bit nervous about the possibility. He bets out, I re-raise and he calls. He turns up QT and I took down a nice pot. The second time, I am in the SB, everyone folds to me, I call, the BB checks. I have QcJc. Flop come down 10c-Jd-Js. Excellent! I check again and the BB bets out. I call. Turn is a rag. He bets out and I re-raise. He re-raises! (does he have KoJax? I decide the odds are overwhelmingly against that and just calls). River is another rag. He bets out again, I re-raise and he calls. He was playing Ax and hit his low card on the turn. Was playing a small pair with the board JJ. Obviously in both instances I was at some risk, but a preflop raise would have only won me the blinds. Instead, I hit two pretty big pots heads up. Does anyone disagree with this strategy in short handed games? Obviously in the first scenario I could have been drawn out with a runner, runner flush with my opponent also holding middle pair. In the second scenario, he could have had a J and a better kicker (AJ or KJ) or filled up. However, I think in these games you have to try to build a big pot when you have the best of it and trust your reads. Anyone disagree? | ||
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| Re: Playing Shorthanded Tables Online, stdioh, 24. Jun 2003 08:31 | ||
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| You shouldn't be raising that river with top pair top kicker - especially when the flush has come. More often than not you'll be beat in that situation and if you're beat mildly it'll cost you 2 bets. If you're beat solidly it'll cost you 3. If your opponent has nothing you won't get any extra money out of him anyway. Essentially your only hope is that he has something good enough to call your river raise without being good enough to beat you. There are very few hands that are that good. Really, you should be raising your AK preflop for value - if you steal it isn't a complete travesty either - stealing with AA is painful, but AK isn't *that* good ... you can afford to steal with it. Also, once you've raised with it and put in more money you are more likely to drag along draws with you and this is what you want when there are few players in the hand. Now when you hit your ace, you should be willing to bet out. Don't give free cards here - if you had flopped a set you could think about doing that, but if your opponent holds 1 pair you are now giving him a free opportunity to catch 2 pair. Make it expensive while you have the best of it and don't be afraid to take the pot down now. Betting the turn up is fine too, but your level of agression should really be measured to your opponent. On the river this is a clear place to call one bet and *not* to raise, as I mentioned above. | ||
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| Re: Playing Shorthanded Tables Online, mroban, 24. Jun 2003 09:19 | ||
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| thanks stdioh! so basically, you disagreed almost entirely with the way I played those hands. While I agree with your analysis, I should add that I had been raising the blinds and having great success stealing, but was getting no action on my good hands and felt that I should try and build a few pots. Anyway, I suppose I was gambling a bit and it paid off. I agree I should check on the river with the scare card. If he bet it out, I would have had to call, so I tried to get the extra bet figuring he didn't have it but thought I was trying to buy it with nothing. I do see your point though - if he didn't have the flush, that card would have scared him too. So the raise should have been pointless (although did pay off here). Thanks again for the sage advice. | ||
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| Re: Playing Shorthanded Tables Online, stdioh, 24. Jun 2003 12:35 | ||
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| Glad you liked what I had to say. Yeah, there are a million ways to skin a cat and if your reads are really excessively good you can do things like raising the river with 1 pair, but they've got to be *that* good. | ||
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| Re: Playing Shorthanded Tables Online, mroban, 25. Jun 2003 07:52 | ||
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| I wish I could say my reads are always "that" good. But they are getting better. Thanks again. | ||
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| Re: Playing Shorthanded Tables Online, Andrew Wells, 24. Jun 2003 09:36 | ||
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| You are correct that mixing up your play is a good strategy when shorthanded. These two examples are extreme cases and you were fortunate that you had an opponent that was willing to go a long way with very weak holdings. There are going to be times when you let someone catch up too much, and lose a winable pot. I still prefer to make the raise before the flop as much as possible, since many of these players are going to play that far anyway. Now if I'm going to throw a curve ball, the flop is the place to do that. If I think my hand is still good or needs protection, then I'll play the turn fast again. I agree completely with stdioh that the river should be played in a straightforward manner. This time you found some clueless opponents, but there are some decent shorthanded players who will not give you extra bets on the end. With the same action a good player will have you beat on the river, or will have folded. | ||
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| Re: Playing Shorthanded Tables Online, mroban, 24. Jun 2003 11:29 | ||
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| I totally agree with the advice on the river. 99% of the time I would check here. Although I will call a bet, I don't want to risk the reraise. The bet could be a steal attempt and I might still have best hand. But here, while knowing that, I felt this guy thought he had me beat the whole way and I was 51% sure that he didn't have the flush. But yes, normally I would just check this hand on the river. Thanks guys, great response. | ||
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| Re: One More Note, mroban, 24. Jun 2003 11:33 | ||
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| I think what I was trying to do (and accomplished) is induce this guys into trying to bluff me all the way to the river. The game was shorthanded and these guys were playing every hand. By showing weakness I think my strategy worked. I am not saying this is correct every time (of course) and probably wouldn't work a third time (my opponent being twice bitten). But as Andrew pointed out, I was throwing a changeup because I was stealing the blinds (about 6 times in a row). I think my opponent had me on "raise strong, check weak". So hey, it worked this time. Thanks again guys for the always sage advice. MR | ||
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| Re: One More Note, palman, 25. Jun 2003 00:21 | ||
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| From my experience in shorthanded play, the biggest key is just knowing your opponents, following their betting patterns, even more so than in full ring play. That being said depending on the opponent there is no absolute way to play anything as far as I'm concerned. (the cheap sklansky copout) | ||
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