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Server Time: 11/21/2008 6:04:11 PM PACIFIC |
 Playing No Limit - Fold or raise?, beigs, 24. Jun 2003 05:24 | ||
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| In an attempt to learn more about No Limit Hold 'Em, I started watching the Aurba Sattelites on Ultimatebet. What I saw confused me. It seemed like a lot of people were limping in and seeing flops cheap. A lot of what I have been reading, however, said that in No Limit, you should raise or fold. DON'T CALL! Now... I'm wondering if, a) those playing these satellites are not good players, b) the raise or fold principle doesn't apply until the final table or short handed, or c) I misread/misunderstood the raise or fold principle. What are the advantages of limping in? What situations would warrant it? I watch the WPT and it's very rare that a flop is seen by more than two people. Why is it in these online tournaments, four, five, and even six people are seeing the flop? Any thoughts? Beigs | ||
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| Re: Playing No Limit - Fold or raise?, shorn, 24. Jun 2003 05:40 | ||
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| I think the idea is that in the first few limits of a NL tourny, you can limp with suited coneectors and smaller pairs to try and flop a big hand that will potnetially let you double thorugh and be in good position if you make the final table. You can do this early on without risking too much of your stack and you can fold pre-flop to a big raise because you haven't committed a lot of chips yet. However, after the first few rounds of the tournament when the blids get higher, it gets too expensive to do this, so the raise or fold theory becomes more prevalent. The reason you don't see limping very often on the WPT is that the blinds are so high that most hands that you play (with the exception of getting a free play in the BB) should be raised or folded because there is already enough $$ in the pot to make it worth raising to try and win pre-flop. If we were to see the first day of any of the WPY tourny's, I bet that you would see much more limping. Just don't get carried away with this strategy as it can eat into your stack. Only the first couple of limits (maybe the 3rd too if you are at a really passive table) and then switch gears to the raise or fold mode. | ||
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| Re: Playing No Limit - Fold or raise?, stdioh, 24. Jun 2003 08:45 | ||
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| There are lots of times to limp in a NL tournament, and there are lots of times when limping is a mistake. Since NL is a game of implied odds you can get paid off handsomely with monster hands and so drawing hands have a lot of value - with drawing hands you want to enter as cheaply as possible and entice as many other players in as possible and this means often limping. Now when the tourney progresses to later stages, everybody is getting squeezed by the blinds and as a result everybody starts playing tighter. This means that you can't play your 78 suited since it won't get paid off enough, so you drop it from your repertoire. You tighten up to compete with the other tight players and suddenly it becomes an arbitrage game where you're balancing steals with genuine moves in an attempt to get all your money in preflop with giant hands, steal the blinds, or stay the hell out of it. Thus limping almost never occurs in the late stages. You might find somebody limping on the button when you're in the blinds and it basically shouts KK or AA and a fear of actually stealing them. I should also point out that limping is naturally more dangerous in NL play than in limit because limp-fold becomes an option. Generally, in a ring game, if you limp and the pot is raised, you're going to call unless it is 3-bet before it gets back around to you. In no limit, minimum raises are usually only made by bad players and good players will adjust the size of their preflop raise to the number of limpers in the pot. Thus, if you are in late postion in a ring game with 7c8c and 5 players have limped, you're in great shape to play the hand. This becomes a little less safe in NL because the puck could then raise by 10 big blinds against the 7.5 big blinds already in the pot, fold off most or all of the limpers in front of you, and reduce you to a 2-handed game. In a limit ring game you'd be *hoping* for a raise after your call because you're getting value out of your hand to pump it up now, knowing that the limpers won't be folding to 1 more bet. To make a long story short, the Aruba supers on UB are very competitive. You can find a lot of fish playing sit-n-gos and regular tourneys, but generally the Aruba players are a notch and a half better and they are usually making pretty good moves. Watching them play for a learning experience is a good idea. | ||
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| Re: Playing No Limit - Fold or raise?, Scrubbie, 24. Jun 2003 14:31 | ||
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| Another move you will see a lot in No Limit hold'em is "Trapping". "Trapping" plays a "HUGE" part in the game, seeing as unlike No limit, one mistake will cost you everything! You may see someone limp in with A-Q suited, and then check the flop in hopes to trap. (Works better if you are known to be a Rock!) A-9 bets out and ... BAM ... A-Q comes over the top ALL-IN! | ||
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| Re: Playing No Limit - Fold or raise?, sburne, 25. Jun 2003 08:38 | ||
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| Love trapping. Hate to be trapped..... | ||
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