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Server Time: 11/21/2008 11:26:52 AM PACIFIC |
 Tournament deal making- questions, Lottery Larry, 20. Jun 2003 20:01 | ||
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| Hello! I ran into a situation in a home tournament concerning deal offers/rejections/choices that I'd like your instruction on. This was a small home no-limit tournament, 1 table, 7 players. Top 2 were scheduled to be paid ($200/$80). When it came down to 3-way, I suggested a save at $40, playing for the rest, because this was a friendly home game and the ring game start was waiting on the completion of our tournament. I was the chip leader at the time by about $700 in chips. Total chips were over 8 thousand. The two opponents were: In second place, a player whose play wasn't straight-forward and whose play I respected, placing her experience and ability higher than my own. In third place, a tight, by-the-book player who I felt I could outplay if I was careful. Should they have taken the save? I was surprised when the 3rd stack nixed the offer. I busted him out soon afterwards with a two face card gamble against his Ace- I caught a pair on the flop that was good. Shortly afterwards, I was about a 2.5:1 chip leader. I offered the player $90 to end it there. She rejected as too low. I asked for a counter, she said $110/$170 split. Should I have taken that deal? I thought I could do well in the ring game to follow, so I wanted to start it as soon as possible- also, because it was a home game, i didn't want to keep anyone hanging around. She rejected my re-counter of $100/180 and we played on. As I feared, I started sliding backwards against her. I didn't have the best of cards, but primarily she outplayed me, coming over the top for pot-sized raises about 70% of the time. I wasn't adjusting that well, so when the now-chip leader offered a split when I was second by 500-800 in chips, I took the even prize money split. I thought the second deal was a good one for me at the time, because I could feel that I didn't have control over my opponent and placed her skills above mine. The results made me think that I'd made a mistake over $10 in equity during the first deal negotiations. I didn't want the $30 loss to unduly color my analyis of whether I'd made a mistake with the deal rejection. If the gap in the prize pool had been larger- say, $550/$850, would I still have been silly to reject the deal? Thank you for any advice. LL | ||
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| Re: Tournament deal making- questions, stdioh, 23. Jun 2003 10:55 | ||
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| The strongest criticism of your play that can exist is when you are chipleader and offer the losing player a sweetheart deal and they refuse it. This means one of two things - the refusing player is an idiot or you are not as good a poker player as you think you are. | ||
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| Re: Tournament deal making- questions, Risky Business, 23. Jun 2003 12:05 | ||
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| I was GIVEN a better prize for 2nd place by a person with 3 times my chips last weekend. I gladly took 2nd, and 50% of the difference between 1st and 2nd........and laughed all the way home. on 23. Jun 2003 10:55 stdioh wrote: > The strongest criticism of your play that can exist is when you are chipleader and > offer the losing player a sweetheart deal and they refuse it. This means one of two > things - the refusing player is an idiot or you are not as good a poker player as you > think you are. | ||
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| Re: Tournament deal making- questions, Lottery Larry, 23. Jun 2003 12:52 | ||
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| stdioh and Risky Business i think that part of her rejection was based on her evaluation on my playing ability. since i rated her as a better player than i am, should i have been more likely to take her $110 deal? i think part of her argument was that the $90 and $100 offers weren't enough given her chip equity. if we are playing for a difference in $120 in prize money, does her 25-33% chip count entitle her to $30 of that? and should i have split hairs over $10 between $110 and $100? your reply stidoh indicates that my $100 offer was a sweetheart deal and i wasn't sure that it was. LL | ||
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| Re: Tournament deal making- questions, Risky Business, 23. Jun 2003 14:33 | ||
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| She has you doubting yourself, take the $170 and get on with it. You can play it off as wanting to keep the game moving if you're embarrassed. Personally, I love being embarrassed while raking in top prize. You had a 10 in 1 shot to make over $100 when you started. on 23. Jun 2003 12:52 Lottery Larry wrote: > stdioh and Risky Business > > i think that part of her rejection was based on her evaluation on my playing ability. > since i rated her as a better player than i am, should i have been more likely to take her > $110 deal? > > i think part of her argument was that the $90 and $100 offers weren't enough given her > chip equity. if we are playing for a difference in $120 in prize money, does her 25-33% > chip count entitle her to $30 of that? and should i have split hairs over $10 between > $110 and $100? > > your reply stidoh indicates that my $100 offer was a sweetheart deal and i wasn't sure > that it was. > LL > | ||
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| Re: Tournament deal making- questions, Lottery Larry, 24. Jun 2003 06:07 | ||
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| on 23. Jun 2003 14:33 Risky Business wrote: > She has you doubting yourself, take the $170 and get on with it. You can play it off as wanting to keep the game moving if you're embarrassed. Personally, I love being embarrassed while raking in top prize. > > You had a 10 in 1 shot to make over $100 when you started. > i would not have been embarrassed at all i just was not sure if i made a mistake. i'm not sure how you are figuring the 10 in 1 shot. if second pays $80 and first pays $200 are we not playing for 120? my chip lead was only 3:1 at most. thank you for any further explaination LL > > on 23. Jun 2003 12:52 Lottery Larry wrote: > > stdioh and Risky Business > > > > i think that part of her rejection was based on her evaluation on my playing ability. > > since i rated her as a better player than i am, should i have been more likely to take her > > > $110 deal? > > > > i think part of her argument was that the $90 and $100 offers weren't enough given her > > chip equity. if we are playing for a difference in $120 in prize money, does her 25-33% > > chip count entitle her to $30 of that? and should i have split hairs over $10 between > > $110 and $100? > > > > your reply stidoh indicates that my $100 offer was a sweetheart deal and i wasn't sure > > that it was. > > LL > > | ||
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| Re: Tournament deal making- questions, Risky Business, 24. Jun 2003 08:06 | ||
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| I was going off of 10 players in the tourney, but re-read your 1st post. You had a 1 in 7 shot, 7 players, to make more than $100 in that tourney before it started. It's a personal decision. Does 1st place matter, or does a sure-fire $100 matter, or does $200 really appeal to you.....to risk only getting $80. on 24. Jun 2003 06:07 Lottery Larry wrote: > on 23. Jun 2003 14:33 Risky Business wrote: > > She has you doubting yourself, take the $170 and get on with it. You can play it off as wanting > to keep the game moving if you're embarrassed. Personally, I love being embarrassed while raking > in top prize. > > > > You had a 10 in 1 shot to make over $100 when you started. > > > i would not have been embarrassed at all i just was not sure if i made a mistake. i'm not sure > how you are figuring the 10 in 1 shot. > if second pays $80 and first pays $200 are we not playing for 120? my chip lead was only 3:1 at > most. > thank you for any further explaination > LL > > > > > on 23. Jun 2003 12:52 Lottery Larry wrote: > > > stdioh and Risky Business > > > > > > i think that part of her rejection was based on her evaluation on my playing ability. > > > since i rated her as a better player than i am, should i have been more likely to take her > > > > > $110 deal? > > > > > > i think part of her argument was that the $90 and $100 offers weren't enough given her > > > chip equity. if we are playing for a difference in $120 in prize money, does her 25-33% > > > chip count entitle her to $30 of that? and should i have split hairs over $10 between > > > $110 and $100? > > > > > > your reply stidoh indicates that my $100 offer was a sweetheart deal and i wasn't sure > > > that it was. > > > LL > > > | ||
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