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Server Time: 3/18/2010 12:54:18 AM PACIFIC |
 Did I misplay this hand?, mroban, 19. Jun 2003 11:48 | ||
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| Poker Room Ring Game. Some good players at the table but a few loose fishy types. $2-4 game. I am the SB. My adversary is one of the loose fish who is basically a calling station. In every hand, seems to raise with random hands, impossible to bet out of a hand. We will call him LF. LF is in 2nd position and is the first caller. Everyone else folds to me. I have Jc-Qc. The BB was a pretty good player who defended his blinds vigorously. This was obviously not a steal situation but I decided to just call instead of raise. BB checks. Flop comes 8h-8d-9h. I bet out , BB folds and LF re-raises. Obviously he might have made trips, but there is an equal chance that he played something like 10-9os and had top 2 pair with a backdoor flush draws and straight draws. With two overcards and a gut buster draw I decided to call. The turn was Js. I bet out and he re-raises. Hmmm. The Jack didn't make him nervous at all. If he was playing 10-9, he now has an open ended straight with 2 pair. Against a good player clearly I should fold this hand, but I decide to call again. The river is an Ad. I check, he bets, I call. He turns over 10d-8h. If I was correct in putting him on 10-9 unsuited, I obviously would have won the hand. But in retrospect, he probably would have just called me down without reraising. I think (even though he is such a bad player) that the second re-raise should have made me lay down the hand. This is a classic hand (in my opinion) where I could have won a small pot or lost a big pot (I lost the big pot). If he had the hand I put him on, he would have simply called one small bet and one big bet and then probably either folded (or checked) on the river. I think this hand is one where without any other callers preflop, the best play would have been to simply fold and move on to the next hand. My implied odds were never better than 2-1 here and even if I was correct about his hand, I was the underdog after the flop. So the odds were incorrect in any instance to play this hand. Thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this hand?, shorn, 19. Jun 2003 11:55 | ||
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| I think that your nalysis is correct. The raise on the flop could mean nothing (hell, I might try that with AT or better), or that he has a 9. Generally, it would be stupid to raise your trip 8's there...I would have given you a chance to catch on the turn and then tried to raise you if you bet again. However, i do question your bet out of the SB with your gutshot/overcard hand. If this guy is the calling station you say he is, you won't be able to bluff him out of the hand if he has ANY piece or potential. Secondly, betting out on the turn when the Jack hits isn't a horrible play, but when he raised, you have to muck. He is basically stapling to his head that he can beat your top pair (with either an 8 or a str8), so save your $$ here and muck. | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this hand?, Wren, 19. Jun 2003 12:00 | ||
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| Hmm...if he's in there raising a lot with random hands, I'd say he's more of a maniac than a calling station. A prototypical calling station check/calls all the time, even with good hands like top pair, high kicker. When a true calling station raises, you'd better have something uber-strong to stay in with. You also said that LF can't be bet out of a pot - then why are you semi-bluffing at him on the flop? There's also the BB to contend with, who's a good player. I don't like the bet here. Since you're out of position, your best bet's probably to check/fold here. If the board wasn't paired, betting out would be less questionable. Alternatively, checking and hoping for a free card wouldn't be bad either. As it was, you got yourself into a situation in which you caught just enough to get dragged along, and then at each point, you were able to convince yourself that you should keep playing. Rolf Slotbloom wrote a good article about compounding mistakes, and I think this is a good example of it. on 19. Jun 2003 11:48 mroban wrote: > Poker Room Ring Game. Some good players at the table but a few loose fishy > types. $2-4 game. I am the SB. My adversary is one of the loose fish who is > basically a calling station. In every hand, seems to raise with random hands, > impossible to bet out of a hand. We will call him LF. > > LF is in 2nd position and is the first caller. Everyone else folds to me. I > have Jc-Qc. The BB was a pretty good player who defended his blinds vigorously. > This was obviously not a steal situation but I decided to just call instead of > raise. BB checks. > > Flop comes 8h-8d-9h. I bet out , BB folds and LF re-raises. Obviously he > might have made trips, but there is an equal chance that he played something > like 10-9os and had top 2 pair with a backdoor flush draws and straight draws. > > > With two overcards and a gut buster draw I decided to call. The turn was Js. > I bet out and he re-raises. Hmmm. The Jack didn't make him nervous at all. If > he was playing 10-9, he now has an open ended straight with 2 pair. Against a > good player clearly I should fold this hand, but I decide to call again. > > The river is an Ad. I check, he bets, I call. > > He turns over 10d-8h. > > If I was correct in putting him on 10-9 unsuited, I obviously would have won > the hand. But in retrospect, he probably would have just called me down without > reraising. I think (even though he is such a bad player) that the second > re-raise should have made me lay down the hand. > > This is a classic hand (in my opinion) where I could have won a small pot or > lost a big pot (I lost the big pot). If he had the hand I put him on, he would > have simply called one small bet and one big bet and then probably either folded > (or checked) on the river. > > I think this hand is one where without any other callers preflop, the best play > would have been to simply fold and move on to the next hand. My implied odds > were never better than 2-1 here and even if I was correct about his hand, I was > the underdog after the flop. So the odds were incorrect in any instance to play > this hand. > > Thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this hand?, 4 POKER, 19. Jun 2003 12:48 | ||
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| Wren, Excellent response....... Right on the money. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this hand?, mroban, 20. Jun 2003 09:28 | ||
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| Thanks guys. That is what I needed to hear and what I learned from that play. To answer the question though, he is a very loose player. Probably falls somewhere between a calling station and a maniac. So I couldn't put him squarely on calling station status. I felt he was a player who would raise with top 2 pair, but in retrospect, the re-raise told me to get the hell out of there (which I ignored). | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this hand?, LJH, 19. Jun 2003 18:41 | ||
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| MROBAN, WHAT KIND OF PLAYER AREYOU.WHAT DID YOU HAVE THAT WAS WORTH PLAYIING. HOW COULD YOU PUT HIM ON ANYTHING WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING. LJH | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this hand?, Big_Slick, 20. Jun 2003 05:34 | ||
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| LJH, Please lose the CAPS!!!! | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this hand?, mroban, 20. Jun 2003 11:23 | ||
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| thats a bit aggressive of a response, yes? I think I detailed everything in my post. I am not sure this is worth a response, but I seriously doubt the quality of my hand precludes putting someone else on a hand. What kind of player am I? The kind that thinks about what others at the table are playing before I commit to a hand. | ||
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