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Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, Risky Business, 19. Jun 2003 07:36
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Table Image: Loose Aggressive
My Image: Tight I'm sure, but not much respect while 5th with 500 in chips with 25/50 blinds, usually being pushed to 100.

I get MP 5d-5h, think for a while and take a shot at a set for 50, hoping nobody raises.

They don't, most fold. 4 players I believe.

Flop comes 3 diamonds, with an Ace. (blinds check/fold when played to)

I'm playing "deezal", to my left, and he's loaded with chips. If I play, I'm pretty much in it for the long haul, as he had been raising.

I check / call, not giving him the opportunity to get me too far in. (The action is so fast here I'm thinking)

Turn is another diamond. Now I know I'm sucked in to the hand, but need my 1/8 chance to hold up (remaining diamonds).

I bet to see if he has a diamond, he raises, not convinced, I call. Don't ask me why I wasn't convinced. Everything said diamond.

River is not a diamond. I bet out with no pairs on the board, he reluctantly calls.

He had A/K, no diamonds. He slowplayed the AK, and nearly won ONLY because he slowplayed it.
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, Wren, 19. Jun 2003 08:05
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on 19. Jun 2003 07:36 Risky Business wrote:
> Table Image: Loose Aggressive
> My Image: Tight I'm sure, but not much respect while 5th with 500 in chips with 25/50 blinds, usually being pushed to 100.
>
> I get MP 5d-5h, think for a while and take a shot at a set for 50, hoping nobody raises.
>
> They don't, most fold. 4 players I believe.

You didn't mention what position you were in, how many players came in already, etc.
Depending on position at the table, the players, and the action so far, I think I'd be more inclined to raise or fold a small pair with the blinds so high and my stack getting so short. After all - you might not hit a set, but another flop that you want to continue with that's less favourable, and having fewer people in the hand obviously increases your chance of winning in the latter case.

> Flop comes 3 diamonds, with an Ace. (blinds check/fold when played to)
> I'm playing "deezal", to my left, and he's loaded with chips. If I play, I'm pretty much in it for the long haul, as he had been raising.
>
> I check / call, not giving him the opportunity to get me too far in. (The
> action is so fast here I'm thinking)

Hmm - I don't like this. You could be drawing very very thin here, but you don't know this - you have no idea about the quality of his hand by check-calling here. With the A on board like that, and the possibility of higher diamonds out there, I think a check-fold is best here. If you continue to play for the diamond, you're essentially committing yourself to this hand if you do hit the flush, and it's a piddly little flush at that.

> Turn is another diamond. Now I know I'm sucked in to the hand, but need my 1/8 chance to hold up (remaining diamonds).

If you're even good right now.

> I bet to see if he has a diamond, he raises, not convinced, I call. Don't ask me why I wasn't convinced. Everything said diamond.
> River is not a diamond. I bet out with no pairs on the board, he reluctantly calls.
>
> He had A/K, no diamonds. He slowplayed the AK, and nearly won ONLY because he slowplayed it.

That's interesting. And it was a good read on your part, but, as you said, you're not sure why you suspected he didn't have a higher diamond as everything on the turn screamed that he had one. I guess a lot of it would come down to your knowledge of the player.

However, I don't think you should have gone past the flop given you opted to limp preflop. Even if he didn't have diamonds, he most likely had an A or something else that had you beat, and you were passively drawing. Not a good thing to do in the late stages of a tournament (or ANY stage in a "fast" tournament like this).
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, Risky Business, 19. Jun 2003 08:12
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Just what I was looking for, thanks.

I know I played it odds-wrong, but he was a wild player, and I had been tight to that point. If anything, I wanted to see if the sight of me betting would get him to run.

Naturally, if the board would have been black, I would have been out of there, check-fold.

p.s. Let's put me at 5th position, and him at 8th. Others were the blinds, but they check-folded (when I should have) :)


on 19. Jun 2003 08:05 Wren wrote:
> on 19. Jun 2003 07:36 Risky Business wrote:
> > Table Image: Loose Aggressive
> > My Image: Tight I'm sure, but not much respect while 5th with 500 in chips with
> 25/50 blinds, usually being pushed to 100.
> >
> > I get MP 5d-5h, think for a while and take a shot at a set for 50, hoping nobody
> raises.
> >
> > They don't, most fold. 4 players I believe.
>
> You didn't mention what position you were in, how many players came in already,
> etc.
> Depending on position at the table, the players, and the action so far, I think I'd
> be more inclined to raise or fold a small pair with the blinds so high and my stack
> getting so short. After all - you might not hit a set, but another flop that you want
> to continue with that's less favourable, and having fewer people in the hand
> obviously increases your chance of winning in the latter case.
>
> > Flop comes 3 diamonds, with an Ace. (blinds check/fold when played to)
> > I'm playing "deezal", to my left, and he's loaded with chips. If I play, I'm
> pretty much in it for the long haul, as he had been raising.
> >
> > I check / call, not giving him the opportunity to get me too far in. (The
> > action is so fast here I'm thinking)
>
> Hmm - I don't like this. You could be drawing very very thin here, but you don't
> know this - you have no idea about the quality of his hand by check-calling here.
> With the A on board like that, and the possibility of higher diamonds out there, I
> think a check-fold is best here. If you continue to play for the diamond, you're
> essentially committing yourself to this hand if you do hit the flush, and it's a
> piddly little flush at that.
>
> > Turn is another diamond. Now I know I'm sucked in to the hand, but need my 1/8
> chance to hold up (remaining diamonds).
>
> If you're even good right now.
>
> > I bet to see if he has a diamond, he raises, not convinced, I call. Don't ask me
> why I wasn't convinced. Everything said diamond.
> > River is not a diamond. I bet out with no pairs on the board, he reluctantly
> calls.
> >
> > He had A/K, no diamonds. He slowplayed the AK, and nearly won ONLY because he
> slowplayed it.
>
> That's interesting. And it was a good read on your part, but, as you said, you're
> not sure why you suspected he didn't have a higher diamond as everything on the turn
> screamed that he had one. I guess a lot of it would come down to your knowledge of
> the player.
>
> However, I don't think you should have gone past the flop given you opted to limp
> preflop. Even if he didn't have diamonds, he most likely had an A or something else
> that had you beat, and you were passively drawing. Not a good thing to do in the late
> stages of a tournament (or ANY stage in a "fast" tournament like this).
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, Wren, 19. Jun 2003 08:15
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Interesting. If he was such a wild player, wouldn't he have raised AK preflop?? Or was he being tricky and slowplaying most of his good starting cards?

on 19. Jun 2003 08:12 Risky Business wrote:
> Just what I was looking for, thanks.
>
> I know I played it odds-wrong, but he was a wild player, and I had been tight to that
> point. If anything, I wanted to see if the sight of me betting would get him to run.
>
> Naturally, if the board would have been black, I would have been out of there,
> check-fold.
>
> p.s. Let's put me at 5th position, and him at 8th. Others were the blinds, but they
> check-folded (when I should have) :)
>
>
> on 19. Jun 2003 08:05 Wren wrote:
> > on 19. Jun 2003 07:36 Risky Business wrote:
> > > Table Image: Loose Aggressive
> > > My Image: Tight I'm sure, but not much respect while 5th with 500 in chips with
> > 25/50 blinds, usually being pushed to 100.
> > >
> > > I get MP 5d-5h, think for a while and take a shot at a set for 50, hoping nobody
> > raises.
> > >
> > > They don't, most fold. 4 players I believe.
> >
> > You didn't mention what position you were in, how many players came in already,
> > etc.
> > Depending on position at the table, the players, and the action so far, I think I'd
> > be more inclined to raise or fold a small pair with the blinds so high and my stack
> > getting so short. After all - you might not hit a set, but another flop that you want
>
> > to continue with that's less favourable, and having fewer people in the hand
> > obviously increases your chance of winning in the latter case.
> >
> > > Flop comes 3 diamonds, with an Ace. (blinds check/fold when played to)
> > > I'm playing "deezal", to my left, and he's loaded with chips. If I play, I'm
> > pretty much in it for the long haul, as he had been raising.
> > >
> > > I check / call, not giving him the opportunity to get me too far in. (The
> > > action is so fast here I'm thinking)
> >
> > Hmm - I don't like this. You could be drawing very very thin here, but you don't
> > know this - you have no idea about the quality of his hand by check-calling here.
> > With the A on board like that, and the possibility of higher diamonds out there, I
> > think a check-fold is best here. If you continue to play for the diamond, you're
> > essentially committing yourself to this hand if you do hit the flush, and it's a
> > piddly little flush at that.
> >
> > > Turn is another diamond. Now I know I'm sucked in to the hand, but need my 1/8
> > chance to hold up (remaining diamonds).
> >
> > If you're even good right now.
> >
> > > I bet to see if he has a diamond, he raises, not convinced, I call. Don't ask me
> > why I wasn't convinced. Everything said diamond.
> > > River is not a diamond. I bet out with no pairs on the board, he reluctantly
> > calls.
> > >
> > > He had A/K, no diamonds. He slowplayed the AK, and nearly won ONLY because he
> > slowplayed it.
> >
> > That's interesting. And it was a good read on your part, but, as you said, you're
> > not sure why you suspected he didn't have a higher diamond as everything on the turn
> > screamed that he had one. I guess a lot of it would come down to your knowledge of
> > the player.
> >
> > However, I don't think you should have gone past the flop given you opted to limp
> > preflop. Even if he didn't have diamonds, he most likely had an A or something else
> > that had you beat, and you were passively drawing. Not a good thing to do in the late
>
> > stages of a tournament (or ANY stage in a "fast" tournament like this).
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, shorn, 19. Jun 2003 10:53
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I agree with Wren here. This is a definite flop fold, tournament or no tournament. You were a 23-1 dog to make your set on the turn and even if you hit your flush, there is no telling it is good. Then, your call of his raise on the turn was (I don't know how to put this) terrible.

Yes, you won the hand but this is one of those situations where you played badly and got lucky. If you played this hand over 25 times, you would most likely lose 24...
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, Risky Business, 19. Jun 2003 11:28
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Glad I won the important 1 of 25 then.

Sorry, but with all those numbers in my head now, I won't do it next time, and it will probably be against you when it happens.

Thanks guys/gals.......this threads dead.


on 19. Jun 2003 10:53 shorn wrote:
> I agree with Wren here. This is a definite flop fold, tournament or no tournament. You
> were a 23-1 dog to make your set on the turn and even if you hit your flush, there is no
> telling it is good. Then, your call of his raise on the turn was (I don't know how to put
> this) terrible.
>
> Yes, you won the hand but this is one of those situations where you played badly and got
> lucky. If you played this hand over 25 times, you would most likely lose 24...
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, shorn, 19. Jun 2003 11:36
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Risky-

I wasn't trying to be harsh on this and sorry if I came off that way.

Steve
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, Risky Business, 19. Jun 2003 12:10
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pfft. nah.
If I can't take it from you guys, then I'm a lot softer than I hoped.

It won't happen again, which is kind of what I was looking for from y'all.




on 19. Jun 2003 11:36 shorn wrote:
> Risky-
>
> I wasn't trying to be harsh on this and sorry if I came off that way.
>
> Steve
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, Big_Slick, 19. Jun 2003 08:40
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I think you were very fortunate to win that hand.
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Re: Tourney Hand to Pick Apart, Risky Business, 19. Jun 2003 10:31
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Agreed, but quite frankly, the way he was playing (for Wren), he could have had absolutely anything.

I had already made a cheap flush, so I had to take my shot. LIke I said, there were 8 more diamonds somewhere, and he's only holding 2 cards, so I'm a 5.75 to 1 favorite (I think....52-2-4 / 8)

on 19. Jun 2003 08:40 Big_Slick wrote:
> I think you were very fortunate to win that hand.
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