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Server Time: 2/13/2012 8:28:35 PM PACIFIC |
 On a losing streak..., beigs, 18. Jun 2003 06:29 | ||
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| Well... just in time for the tournament, I'm on an eight session losing streak. Wondering what people do to climb out of the cellar. I'm finding it very difficult to read players hands. Yesterday, I folded bottom pair because someone bet out and he ended up winning with King high. No pair. No anything. At what's worse, is that three other people stayed in the pot with less than King high! The game's seem so random, I'm not sure how someone with my limited experience should proceed. Do I take time off, just play free games or against computer software? Or do I keep plugging away, stay disciplined, and hope these people will get theirs? Thanks all. Look forward to playing with you tonight. Beigs | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., Steven Sherlacher, 18. Jun 2003 06:45 | ||
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| Play tighter, think position, position, position and make sure you are only in pots against the weaker players or with premium hands. After you get your confidence back (the most important aspect of poker) start playing your game again. Remember...it is what you make of your bad streaks that makes you a great player. | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., Paul Stine, 18. Jun 2003 07:10 | ||
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| I don't know about your other play, but laying down bottom pair to a bluff isn't the end of the world. If you never lay down the best hand you are calling way way way way way too much. Paul Stine College Station, TX on 18. Jun 2003 06:29 beigs wrote: > Well... just in time for the tournament, I'm on an eight session losing streak. > Wondering what people do to climb out of the cellar. I'm finding it very > difficult to read players hands. Yesterday, I folded bottom pair because > someone bet out and he ended up winning with King high. No pair. No anything. > At what's worse, is that three other people stayed in the pot with less than > King high! The game's seem so random, I'm not sure how someone with my limited > experience should proceed. Do I take time off, just play free games or against > computer software? Or do I keep plugging away, stay disciplined, and hope these > people will get theirs? > > Thanks all. Look forward to playing with you tonight. > Beigs | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., stdioh, 18. Jun 2003 08:19 | ||
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| I would suggest that you take a small break from poker and think about your game, talk about poker, do some reading, etc. I find that when I step away from the tables for 2 weeks or so, my game often is stronger when I return than it was when I left. | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., Big_Slick, 18. Jun 2003 10:05 | ||
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| Losing streaks in poker are inevitable. Although I have never experienced an 8 session losing streak, I feel your pain. One thing I try to do when I find myself a loser after a couple of sessions in to tighten up a little. It becomes very tempting to start playing less than spectacular cards hoping to get a lucky flop. You need to resist these urges. Especially when you see some moron next to you winning with 3-8. Losing streaks, I've found, define you as a poker player. This is a lot like losing streaks in sports. You can let the streak overwhelm you or you can button down the hatch and ride out the storm. There are two things that you needs to realize when you find yourself in the middle of a losing streak: 1) Don't add to your misery and financial down turn by playing less than excellent poker. This is when you need to be at your best. Don't go on-tilt, try not to become emotional and don't chase. 2) You will eventually come out of the funk. I know that right now it seems like you will never see a winning hand again, but it will happen. By minimizing your losses now, you will be back in the black sooner than expected. A lot of players will tell you that some of their biggest pay days came at the end of a long losing streak. I agree with the others... it can never hurt to take some time off, read or re-read some literature and post some questions here on UPF. Hang in there! | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., geirel, 18. Jun 2003 10:46 | ||
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| 10% of players win 20% break even, 70 % lose. What are you? Even being a winning player you might lose 8 sessions in a row, but very very seldom, especially if the sessions are lets say 4-8 hours. Drop down in limit, or get a player you know to be good to look over your hands. (you can get handhistories from most sites.) Post hands you are wondering if you played right, study and don't play when you don't really feel like it. Luck (even Bad!)skill prevails. | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., SKinner, 18. Jun 2003 13:16 | ||
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| on 18. Jun 2003 10:46 geirel wrote: > 10% of players win 20% break even, 70 % lose. I have little doubt that these numbers are fairly accurate. However, is this just conventional wisdom, or is there statistical research to back it up? It would make me feel better being in the 10% knowing that that small percentage was accurate. Know what I mean, Vern? –SKinner | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., 4 POKER, 18. Jun 2003 13:55 | ||
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| Beigs, What you need to do is "step out" for a bit and see if you can come up with some valid reasons as to why you are on this losing streak. Losing streaks do occur and for many it's just a temporary set back, but for many others, it is not. You should take a day off or how ever long is needed to reevaluate the entire situation as to... why? Maybe you're playing a little bit too loose or maybe you're not getting the proper reads over your opponents. maybe the games you're playing in are too tough for you right now. I'm not sure. I just know that when a player goes on a losing streak (and 8 sessions in a row would qualify for that), there's something that's just not right. Maybe right now you have something more important on your mind and you're not even realizing that that could affect your poker game. Think about it and make sure your mind is totally focused on the game, and if it isn't.....quit and return to poker when it is; you'll have far better results. If after when you evaluate your play again, you find that you WERE playing a solid game; (making correct calls and laydowns, playing good/solid cards pre-flop and so on), then by all means get right back in there and play. And if you're a little "gun shy" at the moment, then try playing in one of those small sit-N-go's and see if you can gain some of your confidence back again. But by all means, please....either take some time off to think things through carefully and honestly, and then after that...you might need to make some adjustments in your game, and when you're ready...go play again. Maybe drop down a limit or two because you need to protect your bankroll and when the losing streaks occur, your money management skills play a huge part in effecting your all important decission making, and all those things, whether they be correct or incorrect will absolutely affect your mind and well-being. You must have the ability to control all the important factors if you really want to succeed. And your emotions are really going to be put to the test now, more than ever.....so keep your mind clear of all negativity, and be honest with yourself so you can nip the problem as soon as possible. Play good..........Always. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., Soleo, 19. Jun 2003 09:40 | ||
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| I've read many of your posts, 4 POKER, you are between best contributors to this forum. I'd like to add something about the terminology: do you think that it would be better to measure losing streaks not in sessions or months but in hours and big bets? Then we can make it unified between all players, because we no more depend on session lengths, or different playing intensity per month per player. Could you or may be other readers share your experience on how long your longest losing streak was in hours and big bets? I would very appreciate this because I am in 150BB deep losing streak now (since last peak on my bankroll graph) of 100 hours long. I still have winning sessions even more often than every 8 but my overall month-long trend is descending. I have almost 600 hours of online playing experience but now I am a little bit scared because I never had such deep losing of my bankroll. Please comment. | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., 4 POKER, 19. Jun 2003 14:39 | ||
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| Soleo, That's a good question. I'll be real honest with you, ok? Although I have kept accurate records when I first started to take poker seriously, and have kept records for many years after that......Today, at this point of my career, I do not. I tend to keep more of a mental note as opposed to writing them down in a book. Is this right? Well for those who are just starting out and NEED to get the accurate figures as to where they truly are at, then yes- by all means I would strongly suggest that you keep records down on paper. I think if you can keep track more of the BB's (big bets) that you're losing (opposed to the # of sessions you may be putting in, or the amount of hours played), you'll have a better idea as to where you stand. You might lose 10 sessions, but have only put in a small amount of hours and that may not give you an accurate read. if you lose 10 sessions in a row but have only lost a small amount or the hours of your play was short, than all those sessions combined may not even add up to 3 or 4 of your winning ones. Try not to look at a losing session as being a loser in poker. If your winning sessions add up to way more than your losing ones do, you'll be fine. Does that make sense? I'll give you an example of one of my weeks. (and by week I am really referring to my average expected earn for an entire year. I'm just saying "week" to simplify things a bit- but this is just an example without giving you exact figures of my earn).. Anyway..... I play 5 days a week on average. I may have 3 losing sessions during that week, but I (on average) will lose a lot less in those 3 sessions and my winning sessions will exceed the amount of the losing ones. I may have several losing sessions in a row but what I do and what works best for me is this.....when I am losing in a particular session, I try to never lose any more than what my average win may be. Example, if you regularly play $5-10, and your average win (based on a long period of hours) is $200, than you should try not to lose more than that when you do have a losing session. Yes, I know that you can't always achieve that....but if you keep records and you have way many more winning sessions than you do losing ones, if you are able to keep your losses under control (and I'm talking $$ amount, not how many sessions you lost in a row), while you are still able to book winning sessions that exceed the $$ amount of the losses, then you'll come out ahead. Now...how much $$ you'll be ahead will be something that will be based on your own abilities as a player, and if you're consistently playing in games where you are much better than your opponents. If you can apply your table selection skills to your advantage at all times, than your ecpected earn combined with your abilities of a poker player will be greater. (+$$). But the amount WILL vary.... it just depends on how skillful you really are. I'm not one who keeps the exact track of how many BB's I am winning, I simply just know that my wins, $$ amount and sessions played combined, exceed my losing sessions enough to allow me to make a living out of playing poker. It kinda comes like second nature to me now but in the beginning and for many years, I did keep records and would advocate that you do, as well. Don't be upset or scared that you've lost some sessions, just make sure though that your wins out weigh your losses enough to keep you in "the black". (+). I hope this helps a bit. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., Soleo, 20. Jun 2003 08:41 | ||
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| Thank you for thoughtful answer. | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., shorn, 20. Jun 2003 08:48 | ||
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| 4P- This was a very insightful message. I do keep really detailed records, but find that many times I get bogged down in the minutia of the data sometimes I miss the big picture. Bottom line though: The biggest key to being a winning player is to minimize the losing sessions as best you can. We all know (as I experienced last night) that maximizing big wins when the cards are flying is a much easier task. But, the player who ends up in the black each year is an expert at limiting the losses. Steve | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., Soleo, 21. Jun 2003 01:37 | ||
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| > The biggest key to being a winning player is to minimize the losing sessions > as best you can. Let's divide it to even smaller blocks: not minimizing losing sessions but losing as less as possible when hand is turning bad for us. Then if any given hand has been played with minimizing losses or maximizing winning - then session would be ok by itself from long term view. | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., 4 POKER, 21. Jun 2003 06:36 | ||
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| That's correct:) | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., beigs, 18. Jun 2003 14:12 | ||
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| Thanks for all the feedback. After the tournament I'm going to read some of the books I have. The problem that I'm having is that I'm already playing a ridiculously low limit (.25-.50 cents) and it is definitely difficult not to get caught in the low limit mentality of "Well... it's only fifty cents to see if what this guy's got." I've been good about what hands I play and what I junk pre-flop, but after the flop and at the showdown I'm amazed and what come out. There are hands I assume no rational human would play. But there they are. It's also difficult to get a read on opponents hands because everyone calls and no one raises (except me. strange, eh?) So... that's where I'm at. But I'd appreciate it if anyone is sitting at my table tonight to let me know what you thought. I'm playing under the same handle so you'll know it's me. Thanks again, everybody. Beigs | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., 4 POKER, 18. Jun 2003 14:40 | ||
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| Sorry Beigs, I totally disagree with your thinking on this one. If you're playing 25c-50c poker and are seriously playing to win and make money, you can't have the attitude, "well it's only 50c to see what he's got". I'm sorry.....regardless of the limit that you are playing in, if you don't play the game the same way that you would normally play,(you know, a good solid game of poker), then you really shouldn't be playing at all. Unless of course you don't mind losing a little bit of money for 8 sessions in a row. But I was under the impression that you DID want to make money and that these losing streaks were bothering you. How can you expect to have winning sessions if you're really not taking the game seriously enough?.....Can't happen. Maybe the 25c-50c limit is way too low for you? if it is, move up to a limit where you are able to RESPECT the bets and raises of others. If you're bankroll only warants you to play at the 25c-50c game (and that is totally fine), then make sure you take it serious now and play the game to win. This may have sounded a little harsh but you need to know how imperative it is to play your best at any limit. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., MozMan, 18. Jun 2003 14:53 | ||
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| I agree with 4 POKER here. You can't fall into the trap of thinking that just because it is micro-limit you can afford to piss away bets like that. You have to view the chips as chips. They are tools to play the game. Within the setting of the game, they each have no more or less value as the limits change. If you find that difficult to do, then a higher limit might be the answer. -Moz "Does Barry Manilow know you raided his wardrobe closet?" | ||
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| Re: On a losing streak..., DJpoker, 18. Jun 2003 16:30 | ||
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| Good advice POKER. About 15 years ago when I was just learning even how to play hold em, my Uncle would chide me every time I would call with the infamous quote "hell, I'd pay a quarter to see a monkey fornicate." Like many others have said, tighten up. A few chase hands a session could zap all of your monsters. I am not playing as much as many of you, but I plan to shortly. Maybe you are getting to upset about bad beats. Just a thought, cause that usually leads to my downfall. GOOD LUCK | ||
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