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Server Time: 12/3/2008 12:48:27 PM PACIFIC |
 Flopping two pair, SoCalPat, 17. Jun 2003 17:02 | ||
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| I find myself getting into more trouble with this hand than any other. No doubt, such a flop is a great situation to be in. But if you're playing good cards, your two pair will likely constitute someone else's straight draw. And if there's a two-flush on the board, someone else's flush draw. If its top and bottom pair, I'm in trouble if the middle card pairs up, because now I've got kicker issues because my bottom pair is no good. In short, it's something I always play fast. In ring games, short of a horrificly ragged board (say I'm holding K4 suited in the BB, and the flop comes K-8-4 rainbow), is there any instance in which I should milk it? What are the warning signs you look for when it's no good? In NL tournaments, is it a good hand to go immediately all in with in hopes of nailing someone with TPTK, or something close to it? I've had success with it mostly, but once, I was in the SB with A8 suited, flop came AJ8 and I went all-in, only to lose when the J paired to someone who called holding AQ. Is that a good play in that instance or not? Thanks in advance. | ||
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| Re: Flopping two pair, Scrubbie, 17. Jun 2003 18:02 | ||
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| I like your example of having A-8 and loosing to A-Q, cause I am thinking to myself reading your post, the person with A-Q "almost" had a bad beat story to tell. (*lol*) Granted you got the most of it on the flop, in that situation, the A-Q is almost always going to call/raise. But make no mistake ... someone is going to get a bad beat here!!!! In your situation, having hit two pair, on the flop, A-middle, in a no limit game, from the blind, with NO PRE-RAISERS .... You would be correct to push it all in! You really only had two choices here ... Push it all in -or- check to someone you were sure would bet, and then come over the top and push it all in. There was no escaping the bad beat. (Hopefully, that will make you feel better) Unless I am sitting on the stone cold nuts, with "extremely" low chances that someone can outdraw on me, I am almost never going to slow play! ... it costs to much!!! Regarding your other point, about always getting beat when you flop your hand ... If you are constantly playing small kickers, this will happen. If you do it in no limit, then it will happen A LOT! THE GOOD NEWS ... there is another bad ahead of you, to make you forget about this one!!! Scrubbie "Are you my Caucasian?" | ||
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| Re: Flopping two pair, SoCalPat, 17. Jun 2003 18:22 | ||
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| See, I don't even think Mr. AQ had a bad beat story to tell. My all-in should tell him I have top pair, great kicker beaten. Certainly, if he has advance notice (which he does with my all-in bet), he can't gripe, especially since he didn't raise preflop. Whether AQ is a raising hand here is another topic for another time. You make a good point about small kickers, and I think this might be the one big hole in my game -- I'm a sucker for playing suited holdings with a big card (Ax suited from almost any position, and Kx and Qx suited from MP and LP). If it's an agressive game preflop, I usually stay away from the Kx and Qx suited early and middle. But that Ax suited ... it's tempting. Obviously, if I flop a made flush, I should be good. But how often does that happen? If I flop a two-flush, I'm in chase mode and that drains the bankroll. If I flop 2 pair, I'm in the scenario I noted above, and if I flop middle or bottom pair and it's checked around after the flop, I'm begging for trouble by getting involved afterward. I think I'm getting better at staying away from these hands -- especially in the middle stages of tournaments, where it's not shorthanded and my hands likely aren't the best out there. Slowly, however, as I get more hands under my belt, I'm realizing that flushes aren't as easy to come by as they initially sound. | ||
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| Re: Flopping two pair, donrhem, 18. Jun 2003 05:24 | ||
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| SoCal- I used to have the same problem. I went back and read TJ's book on NL tournaments. To try to quote him: Don't play ANY suited cards unless you would play them without them being suited. Drawing hands (four flush, straight etc.) are LOSING hands. I have just started playing NL again (on line). In my last ten tournaments I have finished 2nd three times, 3rd twice and in the top ten every other time except one. Still waiting for the big one:-) Don | ||
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