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Server Time: 12/3/2008 12:04:02 PM PACIFIC |
 NL Hand I Played (Poorly?), DoctaJones, 15. Jun 2003 04:02 | ||
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| Ok, so I was sitting at a .10/.25 NLHE game recently. I'd been sitting there for about an hour and had about $30. The game was 8 handed and I on the button when JT spades pops up in my hand. All but one call the quarter before, SB folds and BB (pretty solid player but he's out to get me after a tough beat earlier) bets out a dollar. All call. Flop comes Jh 6h Tc. BB bets out $6 I caller rest fold to me. I raise $10 thinking that BB is protecting an over pair, AK or maybe betting on the come with an A high flush draw. BB quickly moves in over the top of me (we have basically the same size stack) and middle caller goes all in for $15. I call the all in. BB flips up QQ and middle caller Kh4h. Turn was Kc. River 9s. I'm beaten by a straight K high. Did I misplay this hand? How badly? | ||
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| Re: NL Hand I Played (Poorly?), Andrew Wells, 15. Jun 2003 06:06 | ||
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| No, you got your money in with the best of it. Suckouts happen. Your other option was to just raise all-in immediately on the flop. | ||
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| Re: NL Hand I Played (Poorly?), psuasskicker, 15. Jun 2003 08:03 | ||
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| What are you really going to fear in that hand? A set perhaps, which is certainly possible. But you flopped top two pair, and certainly don't want anyone drawing to the flush or straight . You definitely took a bad beat, but I don't think you misplayed the hand at all. - C - | ||
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| Re: NL Hand I Played (Poorly?), 4 POKER, 15. Jun 2003 10:38 | ||
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| I think your preflop call on the button was fine. You were getting the correct odds to play J-10 suited as that hand plays better with volume and for a cheap price. That being said, when the BB raised preflop, and the flop came up, J-10-6, (2 suited), once the BB bets and only gets one other caller, you have to make the decision to either push all in or fold. You flopped top two pair, and there's not that much that can beat you at this point, including the original preflop raiser. Yes, he could have flopped a set(perhaps JJ), but given your holding, his more probable hand(if not just overcards), is a higher pocket pair to the highest pair that was on the board(J). The player in the middle probably flopped a flush or straight draw, or maybe even top pair or something like that. But if either one of them flopped a set, than there's nothing you can do about that anyway, BUT, with that flop and your holding, if you're going to CONTINUE with the hand and are going to call all bets anyway, you'll be better off pushing all in and make the other player/s PAY to complete their hand. Even if the BB has an overpair to the board, you're still the favorite and should not be giving anyone a chance to catch up and beat you only because you were all too willing to just call his raise. You also had mentined that the MP player was all in for the remaining raise on the flop, thus leaving you with only one other opponent. Well when someone goes all in, even if he has you beat already, there's nothing you can do on the later streets that would effect his decisions to call or fold. He's all in and if he does have you beat, look at it from this perspective... He can not cost you any more money either so you're basically at this point just playing against the BB.(the money that you put in the pot already should not effect your play from that point on against an opponent who's outcome you can not change) Think about it, the bets that you put in the pot from that point on will only have an effect on the player who still has chips. So play your hand as if you were just in a heads-up match. Don't concern yourself with somebody who doesn't have chips anymore. The main pot may very well go to the all in player, but the side pot is the one that you'll be fighting for. Let me ask you this... would there be a card that would come on the turn that would make you throw your two pair away if now the BB decided to push all in? If the answer is no, and you would call his all in bet, then you're better off going all in yourself, on the flop while you still are the favorite. Now...slowplaying a flop, and/or (not being aggresive enough) in NL, is fine if you flop an absolute monster, however, when your hand has a slight or even decent chance of being beat, if you feel that at this point you do have the best of it, than you must make the decision as to whether you are willing to push all in.(folding is another option, but just calling can allow your opponents to draw out on you). I think when you feel that you're getting the best of it, is the time to commit to the pot. My advice on the flop?.. "Either pump it, or dump it". Allow the BB to make the decision as to whether he wants to commit the remaining of his stack when you now come over the top of him and push all in. Do I think you played this hand poorly?...No, but in NL, you want to put pressure on you're opponent when you're getting much the best of it, and if you have the choices to either just call or push all in, you'd be better off to go all in. Make your opponent think as to what he should do now, while you sit in the driver's seat. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NL Hand I Played (Poorly?), stdioh, 16. Jun 2003 10:55 | ||
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| You played it ok. Your top 2 pair is a great hand and just about impossible to get away from with that board, since there is no straight or flush possible at the time and you make it unlikely for somebody to have a set. Your opponent is very unlikely to have top or second set due to there being only 2 jacks and 2 tens left and his preflop raise would make it unlikely for him to have bottom set. Basically you have correctly put him on an overpair here. That said, the board has a scary flush draw out there as well as a lot of likely straight draws. You need to take away odds from your opponenets and make them pay too much if they want to call. It is likely that you have somebody on a gutshot with overcards or even up/down with 1 or 2 overcards, so you'll need to bet big to hurt them. Likewise, because of your limping preflop, the preflop raiser is liable to put you on top pair good kicker with a backdoor draw - something like JK with a heart. Thus you need to come out guns blazing. When the preflop bettor bets out $6 and gets flat called, you know that the flat caller is either on a draw, worse than you, or is sandbagging an absolute monster. You have to bet and bet *HARD*. That means that you need to come out violently with a bet bigger than pot here. I think shoving forward $25 would be reasonable. The reason? If you take it down now then that's fine. You've made good money. You don't want more than one opponent with your vulnerable hand. You can probably drag along the bettor here, but still fold off the draw - and even if the draw calls he's paying too much. If you fold off the bettor (say he had AK) and the draw calls then you still have the lion's position here and the draw has less in the way of odds. The way you did it with the small raise, you entices the original bettor to bet more, but still not enough more. Now the draw has odds and decides that he is pot committed so he moves all-in - not a great move, but reasonable for a bad player to do. You're, of course, married to the hand and you lost by a bad beat. Had you shoved enough to put the draw all-in, the BB would probably have called, the draw would probably have folded, and you'd be laughing. Now you'd still get drawn out on, but you would have been putting the money in while you had the best of it. In no limit poker, I'd rather take the money now than leave somebody with a chance of drawing out on me. Your top 2 there is the textbook great, but vulnerable hand - it needed protection, not a piddly reraise. | ||
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