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Server Time: 3/18/2010 12:54:09 AM PACIFIC |
 NL Tourneys, FGH2345, 13. Jun 2003 23:48 | ||
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| This is my first post on the forum, hopefully I can get some of the help I was looking for. First, I want to give a quick background to help you better understand my situation. Me and some buddies have been playing no limit tourneys often. We are all just starting off, and we buy in for a set price and it is winner take all. There is between 4-6 guys a night. We each start with stacks equivalent to $500,000 in chips. Our blinds start at 15-30, then go up as people are knocked out. I would like to know what everyone thinks the best general strategy approach to this sort of game would be. I know a lot of it is feel, and reading your opponent, but at this stage, I am just starting and can only do that to a point. I am looking for strategies such as starting hands, playing tight vs. loose, betting, etc. My general strategy has been to play tight, and only play my premium hands, unless I am in the blinds and it isn't raised. I tend to bet my top pairs, and sometimes medium pairs if I don't think anyone has anything. Check my premium hands trying to get others to bet. I feel like I have a pretty good strategy overall, but I continue to go out. It seems like people keep drawing out and me. They call big bets on draws and always hit. I know some of that is just bad beats, but I am wondering if there are other ways to play the hands or what not. I know this is pretty general, but hopefully someone can help me get started and we can get a good conversation out of it. Thanks for any of the help. | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, Banning, 14. Jun 2003 00:46 | ||
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| I made a question about NL play awhile ago. The advice one of the gurus here gave me and that i will relay to you is, "That at no limit hold'em you have to make a decision every time you put money into the pot on whether or not you are willing to put all of your money into the pot" I haven't read it, but everybody says to read T.J. Cloutiers "Super System" cuz it rocks. Start out tight, but as there comes to be less and less people you will of course need to start loosening up. As the table gets shorter handed high cards get to be way more important as opposed to connected suiters and such. Also, pocket pairs just plain rock. Phil Helmuth also has a book too, but based on most peoples descriptions if you had to only read one go for T.J.'s book, and read Phil's later. | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, Mark, 14. Jun 2003 09:04 | ||
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| Super System was written by Doyle Brunson | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, Mark, 14. Jun 2003 09:12 | ||
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| If your starting out with 500,000 in chips and the blinds are only 15-30, i would play about 90% of the pots that aren't raised. you have almost 17,000 blinds so limping will not hurt you. I wouldn't tighten up until the blinds get over 5000. even then you'd have 100 blinds (if you still had 500,000) The fact that you are playing shorthanded, 4-6 players, also means that you can loosen up and limp with a wider variety of hands, especially in later positons. If you meant that the blinds start at 15,000 and 30,000, you can't play too tight. (this also applies at the later stages), If you wait for a premium hand the blinds will eat away at your stack. You have to play your position and opponents. Try to get heads up against a player who you have a good read on. mark | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, 4 POKER, 14. Jun 2003 09:50 | ||
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| If the guys you play with are fairly passive and aren't doing too much raising preflop, then what I would do is, when you have a monster holding (AA or KK), bet heavy preflop and make them pay to play their drawing hands. If the flop comes favorable for you, depending on the amount of players who are in the hand; put in a bet that would favor your hand. Example, if you flop a set in an uncoordinated board, then trapping one of your opponents might be the best play. But if their only willing to just call rather than betting their hands and/or draws, than make it expensive for them. And if you feel that a pot sized bet opposed to moving all in is best, than try taking that approach. You want to make them pay to hit their drawing hands but you don't want to bet an amount that would give them the proper odds to continue either. If you feel that pushing all in on the turn is a better move, than do that. If you feel that pushing all in preflop is more effective, than do it Example, you're holding AA or KK and the flop looks very favorable for you; depending on how many others are involved, if the board is slightly coordinated and you make a fairly large bet but not one that knocks all of them out, if the turn card seems to have not helped anyone(a made straight or flush), then push all in now. They'll only have one more card to hit and by making it expensive on this round may very well cause them to either fold(which would yield you a nice profit anyway) OR they will chose to call your all-in bet making it entirely incorrect for them now because if they don't complete their hand, they will have crippled their chip position thus leaving them either very short stacked or busted completely. Allow them to make mistakes while still allowing yourself to be the favorite. . Trapping is a big element in NL, so when you have the opportunity to trap a player, take advantage of it. Let's say you're holding AA; if you're in early position and you know of at least one other player to be aggressive, than limp in with your AA, wait for him to raise and then you can push all in. But so much of betting is based on your reads of your opponents. In NL, you must be able to have that because you also have to make a lot more bluffs as well And if your opponents have a good read on you, watch out! Even though you may play better starting hands than they do, when a player has stronger reading abilities, this allows them to play a wider range of hands and they'll be able to make plays against you that might cause you to fold the best hand or by making a catastrophic mistake by not knowing where they are at during the coarse of a hand. They'll be able to bluff you more as well. You want to have a good read on them but you want them to always be second guessing themselves when their involved with you. So mix it up a little bit; play good hands, but play deceptively as well.. The best NL players out there can bet and raise with almost no hand at all because their reading abilities are amazing. Your strategic moves (strategy) must be combined with your abilities as a player. If you don't have the ability to read your opponents well enough, than your strategic plays will not work. You must possess both. That's the key. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, FGH2345, 14. Jun 2003 11:55 | ||
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| Thanks guys for the tips. They are great, keep them coming. To clarify, blinds are $15,000/$30,000 to start. I knew after i posted that it might be read wrong. Hopefully that clears things up some. I feel I got a good read on 2 of the 3 guys I normally play with. One only plays when he has something, and his betting shows it. The other will play a little of everything, but buys at a lot of pots. I try trapping him, but a lot of times I don't have the cards to really sting him. I could make a move all in though, and that would probably get him to fold. Mid to large bets he would probably call with just a pair. That is why I try waiting him out and letting him buy at pots, then make large raises and I can usually make a lot of profit this way. Betting isn't usually large unless someone has something, general betting is from $20,000 - $60,000, with large betting up in the $100,000's. Usually there is some pre-flop raising with good hands. They like raising high suited cards, AKo, pocket pairs, otherwise most of them limp in. | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, 4 POKER, 14. Jun 2003 12:06 | ||
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| Hey, If you said that these players do not bet heavy preflop unless they have something strong than they're not willing to trap you either. That would than make it more correct for you to limp in with your drawing hands because the price that you'll be getting will be correct also. You'll also need to bluff more preflop because more times than not, they won't be holding a strong hand so you'll have better results with this type of play. It sounds to me that most of them are playing the game like limit hold-em opposed to NL where trapping and bluffing are two very important factors. Take advantage of that and use it to your benifit. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, FGH2345, 14. Jun 2003 12:21 | ||
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| Yeah, they mainly raise with premium hands. Once in a while they will trap by slowplaying a good flop, but it is usually obvious to me at least, so I have been able to keep myself out of the traps. They usually check the flop, then think hard on the turn and check it, then bet really strong on the river. So you think maybe I should trying raising preflop with not a lot, then betting it out strong like I have the hand? Then try to trap them when I have the good ones by not betting then reraising? I am still new at this so, I really appreciate the help and clarification. I want to learn as much as I can. | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, 4 POKER, 14. Jun 2003 13:24 | ||
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| What I'm saying is, if there all to willing to just limp in with their monster holdings than it would make it correct for you to limp in with more of the drawing hands, medium pairs etc. But you must hit the flop extremely well in order to continue because like you said, there are some of them who will slowplay a big hand preflop. But because they chose to not put any pressure on you preflop, you can punish them more times now when you don't flop a monster. I wouldn't lead at the flop with an inferior hand or make a bluff bet, I would make more of my bluffs preflop. If they're playing relatively tight preflop and are doing very little raising(unless they hold monsters), than you should be more inclined to bluff bet in this spot. But, if you get called by one of these tight and/or trap type players, you must know when to pull the reins and be aware of danger. You simply just can't bluff bet the whole entire hand; but I would definitely be putting in some more bluff bets preflop against them and I would also be calling with my drawing hands as well(preflop). The odds they're giving you will make it correct and like I said, that's because they aren't raising enough preflop and look at it this way for a moment...if you think that most of them will only call a small bet with a drawing hand but will raise more with a huge hand, then put a substantial raise in yourself when you are holding a semi-strong drawing hand. Make them decide if they want to commit their chips with a drawing hand preflop. You can pick up a lot of dead money and blinds by betting heavy preflop when the other players are only going to call you if they hold a big hand. If they don't bluff enough, then you sure as hell should, especially preflop, because you'll KNOW when and if they call you, that you will have to flop something. But like I said, more times than not, a player is not dealt a good hand and your bluff raises preflop will be more effective against weaker, tighter opponents. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, FGH2345, 14. Jun 2003 14:20 | ||
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| That makes sense. I will try it out tonight. We are playing again, and hopefully some of these new strategies will help me out. Thanks for the tips. | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, 4 POKER, 14. Jun 2003 14:25 | ||
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| on 14. Jun 2003 14:20 FGH2345 wrote: > That makes sense. I will try it out tonight. We are playing again, and hopefully some of these new > strategies will help me out. Thanks for the tips. I hope it helps and remember, everyone has their own style, these are just a few tips that might help you to extract more money from the game. Good luck tonight. (I sure hope you win)!!!! 4P- | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, FGH2345, 15. Jun 2003 03:18 | ||
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| Hey Bud, Thanks for all the great advice. I played in a tournament online at poker pages. I took 7th place out of 225 in the no limit. We then played tonight with my buddies, and I won it all!! The advice was excellent. There were 5 guys to start. I knocked out 3 of the 4 opponents. When it got to heads up, I was playing a guy who is really loose and likes to raise a lot. He was betting at everything. I was the chip leader at the time though and would call when I had it and what not. I made a few good re-raises to get him to fold. Anyways, We were getting closer to even. I raised before the flop A4 spades. He called. 2,3,J came on the board, all scattered. I proceeded to bet, and he called. An 8 fell on the turn. I continued to bet trying to bully him out. Finally, on the River came the 5. I bet all in and he called me with 8, J. It was great because that was my first extremely large bet, so he thought I was buying at it. Anyways, thanks for all the tips. I appreciate the help. | ||
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| Re: NL Tourneys, 4 POKER, 15. Jun 2003 09:33 | ||
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| on 15. Jun 2003 03:18 FGH2345 wrote: > Hey Bud, > Thanks for all the great advice. I played in a tournament online at poker pages. I took 7th place out of 225 in the > no limit. We then played tonight with my buddies, and I won it all!! > > The advice was excellent. There were 5 guys to start. I knocked out 3 of the 4 opponents. When it got to heads up, > I was playing a guy who is really loose and likes to raise a lot. He was betting at everything. I was the chip leader > at the time though and would call when I had it and what not. I made a few good re-raises to get him to fold. Anyways, > We were getting closer to even. I raised before the flop A4 spades. He called. 2,3,J came on the board, all > scattered. I proceeded to bet, and he called. An 8 fell on the turn. I continued to bet trying to bully him out. > Finally, on the River came the 5. I bet all in and he called me with 8, J. It was great because that was my first > extremely large bet, so he thought I was buying at it. > > Anyways, thanks for all the tips. I appreciate the help. Hey, That's great, congratulations to you on both finishes. I'm glad I was able to help a bit and I hope that you understand as to why some of those plays/strategies/thinking, can benefit you (from your perspective) of the game and there will be times when different strategies may work as well, it just depends on the players and the texture of the game at hand. Way to go! 4 POKER | ||
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