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Server Time: 2/13/2012 4:16:09 AM PACIFIC |
 Player skills at higher limits, mkpoker, 13. Jun 2003 11:10 | ||
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| Still a beginner, I've playing B&M 3-6 almost exclusively and have been doing very well--averaging 3 BB/hr. I know that's high, and probably unsustainable. What's the secret? The 3/6 players absolutely stink. They're incredibly loose, raise without cause and almost never fold after seeing a flop. I'm feeling ready to move up to 5/10 (where I've only dabbled thus far), but am wondering how much better the players will be at the higher level. Obviously, 3bb/hr at 3-6 is better than 1bb/hr at 5-10. What are others experience at moving up in stakes? | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, stdioh, 13. Jun 2003 11:30 | ||
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| I'd say that you should give the 5-10 a try and see if it is just as idiotic. The rake in the 3-6 game is probably eating everybody alive and I would imageine that they don't take much more money off the 5-10 than they do the 3-6. If the players are just as bad (and they probably are), stick with 5-10 for a while. Don't move too high too fast, but at the limits where a lot of recreational players can afford to sit, you can mop up. | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, 4 POKER, 13. Jun 2003 11:45 | ||
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| If you are beating the $3-6 games consistently and you can honestly say that you are better than most of them, than the move to the next limit will probably be a reasonable move. Some adjustments are going to be needed(as in all games that you sit down in), so just play your best game, be aware of who the really good players are and play against them accordingly. If one particular game is too tough for any reason, than try to find a different $5-10 game, or if that fails, you can always chose to sit back down in the $3-6 game. Sometimes the $3-6 games will be a lot looser than the $5-10, so you'll have to get used to that and you'll have to make the necessary adjustments that will be needed as you may need to re-evaluate your pre-flop play just a bit. As long as you feel comfortable with the limit(regardless of what limit it may be), and have enough confidence in the game at hand and have a substantial bankroll for that limit(not one that will make you play scared), then by all means test the waters and move up to the next limit. I can only speak for myself and tell you that when I first started out, I played at the same limit until I was positive that I had a chance at succeeding at the next limit. For some, the jump might not take as long, but for me it took a whole year before I went from the $1-5 games to the $5-10 game. And with each time that I progressed to the next limit, my skills were that much greater, my confidene was there for sure, and that was all due to experience. {keep in mind...there is nothing wrong with moving up and than finding out that you're just not ready yet and than choose to move back to your original limit as to where you felt really comfortable and were booking consistent wins} As soon as you're ready you'll know it. Good luck to you. 4 POKER. | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, JLenart, 13. Jun 2003 12:05 | ||
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| Hey 4 Poker, I was talking with a few guys last night who play regularly at the 10/20 game at our local boat. My bank roll, and probabaly my psche only allow me to play at the 5/10 table. These guys said they moved away from the 5/10 game because of it's "No Fold 'Em" type of play. Subtle plays are totally uselss in the 5/10 game and the only reason to raise is to build the pot. A raise simply doesn't get people ot of the hand unless they have absolute rags. Suck outs are huge at these tables and I've learened to increase the value of drawing hands here as well. Evidently, the 10/20 game plays more true. Bluffs and semi bluffs can work, raises are respected and bad play doesn't last long. What i understand from these guys is that when a bad player sits at the 10/20 game others will try to isolate the bad player but what the real sharks do is then trap these players who are going after the bad player. the other thing is that the rake for both the 5/10 game and 10/20 game is the same. Doing a little figureing I put the rake at about $150 - $200 per hour (10% of the pot to a $5 max) with most people at the 5/10 game buying in at $200 to $300 the rake actually busts out about one person every hour. realizing that I've been very glad to walk away from these tables even a slight winner. So, should I move up to 10/20? What kind of buy in does this game take? And, whats the best way to get my head ready for the increased value of the bets. I mean calling a $10 raise or even a $20 reraise isn't nearly the same as calling a $40 raise or a $60 reraise. Thanks, John | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, 4 POKER, 13. Jun 2003 12:22 | ||
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| Hey John, First and foremost, you must have an adequate bankroll to play in the $10-20 games. That is the #1 criteria in poker.(#2 is discipline), and they both go hand in hand. Though it might seem tempting for you to move up, $10-20 does play alot higher than $5-10 and you must feel comfortable enough when it comes to putting in an $80 bet with a strong hand. You also must feel confident enough to occasionally semi-bluff and all those other factors that can not be taken out of your game style just because you may feel uncomfortable about the dollar amount. (that is what I mean by playing scared). When your bankroll is sufficient enough and can withstand the losses and you can play a perfect game of hold-em in that limit, is when and only when you'll be able to succeed in that limit. Though it may be true that the $10-20 limits do play more "true", you'll still be faced with many aggressive types who either don't care about the limit or they are experienced and skiled enough to play against you more properly thus giving them an edge. If you want to give it a try, then take about $400 and see how you feel. You might surprise yourself as to how good and comfortable you really are in this limit. Good luck; let me know how you do and what you decide, ok? 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, JLenart, 13. Jun 2003 12:30 | ||
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| 4 Poker, Thanks for the advice. I thought that $400 might be lower than I'd really need at 10/20. I was thinking more like $500. My real fear would be that I'd play far to tight to beat this game. If i go in with the mind set that I'm going to play solid, quality poker then I won't have to worry about the denomination of the bets (they're just checks at this point right?) I should be alright. I think back to my first B&M experience at 5/10 and lost a bit, like $20 over a 4 hour session and know i could have and should have played much better but nerves had me playing tight and not thinking situations all the way through. I suppose I could mentally prepare myself for playing at these higher limits with this experience in mind. However when someone sucks me out on a bad beat I'll have to work extremely hard to avoid tilting. I've come to expect these moronic plays at 5/10 but I don't know how I'll handle them when the limits increase. Thanks again for your sagely advice, John | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, 4 POKER, 13. Jun 2003 13:02 | ||
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| No problem John. Glad I was of some help. As far as your buy-in goes, what ever you feel comfortable with is fine. Hey, you might want to buy in for more than $500 just to give yourself a good table image. But you're right, look at the chips as just checques and you'll have an easier time putting in those bets and raises where they need be. 4P- | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, Mark, 13. Jun 2003 11:58 | ||
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| it sounds like you should take a few shots at the bigger game, but keep a few things in mind. 1. $5-10 at B&M is still low limit, so while a few players will be better, don't expect a everyone to be "good". You will see some of the same (fishy) $3-6 players in the bigger games. And to your surprise they might be doing well. 2. Have a big enough bankroll so that you can afford a losing session or two. If you sit down short stacked or worried about losing, you may play too tight and passive. 3. If the game seems tough move back down. Don't try to play in a game where you're not confident. 4. you don't have to make the move all at once. You can move between limits freely in any give session. try the $5-10 game, if things go bad and you lose a few hands early, move back down and try againg tomorrow. Move betweent the games to find out where you'll make the most profit. 5. listen to stdioh and 4POKER mark | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, noiseboy, 13. Jun 2003 12:18 | ||
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| If the players are that awful at your 3-6, I don't think it's impossible to clear 3BB's per hour consistently, as long as you keep choosing the tables where they are playing that bad. What happens though is that some days the action might not be as good, and you settle for a game where your expectation is only 1BB per hour, then that brings down the average. I'm sure the 5-10 games probably have some better players than the 3-6; however, at my casino I am always shocked that a lot of the 6-12 players aren't much better than the 3-6. There will be one or two other good players, and six or seven terrible players. I also play a lot of 4-8 Omaha 8 with a half kill, and the play is shockingly bad. :) Thank goodness, I only started with the O8 recently so I can't give you long term stats, but I've been beating it for about 6BB's per hour so far. I know it will come down when I get a dry run of cards, but I'm always surprised when I don't play a hand for an hour, then I'm dealt a premium hand and have seven callers, three of whom pay me off with second nut hands when I have the nut straight of flush. Just keep with the good table selection, and you will win. The trick to playing the higher limits, is that when they are tough, don't play, go back to the fish at 3-6. Also, you MUST have enough bankroll, so that you are not playing scared, even the bad players at higher limits tend to be more aggressive, if you are playing with scared money you will get pushed off of hands you should stick with. If you keep an eye on the higher limit tables, you will recognize certain times--Friday nights at around 11pm or later for instance--when the action is much looser than normal. Sometimes I'll play 15-30, sometimes I'll even go back down to 3-6 if I recognize too many solid players in the 15-30 and 6-12. | ||
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| Re: Player skills at higher limits, Wren, 13. Jun 2003 14:34 | ||
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| It's too bad that the lowest limit at your casino is $3-6. This necessarily entails that the worst play will be found there, and that the $5-10 will be at least somewhat less fishy. I'm lucky in that the lowest limit at my casino is $5-10, so that's where the 3-card and Caribbean Stud players go to "try their luck" at hold'em. stdio keeps raving about one casino in Vancouver, where the lowest limit is a (kill) $10-20. DROOOL!!! I'm all excited to head out there this summer. On a related note, this is one of the reasons why the higher limit online games are harder to beat, in general, than the same limits at B&M casinos. There are so many micro and small limit games for the new players to dip their toes into that you'll rarely find them at $5-10 and up. | ||
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