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Server Time: 11/21/2008 10:55:28 AM PACIFIC |
 Straddling, MozMan, 13. Jun 2003 08:28 | ||
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| Hey guys- At my B&M, they allow something called straddling in the hold'em games. This is when you are UTG on the deal, you can blind post a raise (so, if it's a 3-6 game, and you are UTG, you can straddle $6 before seeing your cards). My quesitons are these: 1- Is this common (can it be done anywhere)? 2- Why would you do it (is there some strategy behind it)? I see it happen every so often, and it honestly makes little sense to me. It almost seems to be an exuse to play a hand that you should not play, cuz you are already in. Any thoughts? -Moz "Hey, your schwartz is as big as my schwartz." | ||
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| Re: Straddling, shorn, 13. Jun 2003 08:35 | ||
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| This is a play by a player to increase the action in the game, pure and simple. Effectively, this player is making the game 6-6 instead of 3-6. DO NOT DO THIS as it is likely one of the most -EV plays out there. Long run, it is a complete losing strategy. So now the question is, how do you handle a player that does this? Basically, be patient with your hand selection and punish the crap out of him when you have good cards in an attempt to isolate. | ||
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| Re: Straddling, 4 POKER, 13. Jun 2003 08:46 | ||
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| Not all cardrooms allow you to make straddle raises. I know they don't allow it in Atlantic City. (But I am referring to "live" straddles, not just raising UTG blind). The player is probably just looking to create action in the game and if the game is on the dull side, then IMO it's not a bad idea for someone to try and loosen things up a bit. Would I make a straddle raise? No! But I sure as heck don't mind it when somebody else does! Yes, they will more than likely call a raise if you were to re-raise them with a strong hand but so what; I love punishing someone who will call my raise with a "blind" hand.(I'll take my chances)! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Straddling, smd, 13. Jun 2003 11:33 | ||
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| I agree. When facing a straddle- I am either folding or raising. You want to try to get it heads up | ||
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| Re: Straddling, Andrew Wells, 13. Jun 2003 08:47 | ||
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| It is common as far as I know. I'm not aware of any live card room that doesn't allow it, but there may be some that don't. It is considered a sucker play that is -EV. Generally it is done to temporarily try to loosen up a very tight table. However this doesn't last, as the players just go back to playing tight unless the straddler now wins the pot with crap and gets on a rush from the blinds. Sometimes you see an action player making the straddle, perhaps hoping to get someone else to do this as well. It's just an impatient way of kicking up the game in that case. Some justifiable situations to straddle occasionally are: When you are heads-up on the button with the small blind. When it's three handed, you are on the button and play better than your other two opponents. Just don't always straddle here, even though it is somewhat a positive play. You don't want to cause one of them to leave and break up the game if you have the best of it over both of them. When you have the kill button UTG at a full table of weak players. Particularly if they are unaccustomed to correct play against a straddle, or are intimidated by the higher stakes. To defend against a straddle, you must realize that you won't get that player to fold preflop regardless of the ensuing action. However you should make it three bets with any hand you would ordinarily raise with. If there are many players in on the flop, the pot is going to be unusually large. So you may have to risk giving a free card and delay making the power raise until the turn. At least that way the players with gut shots and middle pairs may not get to the river, where they surely would if you raise on the flop and make the pot too large to fold. A hand with a straddle is like having a third blind in play, this is going to cause more bad beats. But when you do make a very strong hand, you get over-rewarded with the artificially large pots. | ||
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| Re: Straddling, 4 POKER, 13. Jun 2003 09:01 | ||
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| Andrew, They do not allow the "live straddle bet" in AC. That is when you raise UTG blind and then when the action gets back to you, you can now also re-raise it again EVEN if noone has raised you. The "live straddle" bettor is playing his hand as if he was in the SB or BB position which would allow him to back raise his hand again; even if all the other players had just called his initial raise. If he is strictly referring to raising UTG blind where the player would not have the option of raising his hand again, then there wouldn't be nearly as much action on the hand. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Straddling, Andrew Wells, 13. Jun 2003 09:08 | ||
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| We have it even better here in Kansas City. They allow the Mississippi straddle, or stroodle. This is a straddle on the button in a full ring game. Now if the action gets to the button unraised, the stroodle bet plays as a blind raise. If someone raises before the button, the stroodler has the option of taking the double bet back and folding, checking, or making it three bets! I'm still uncertain if the stroodle is -EV. | ||
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| Re: Straddling, stdioh, 13. Jun 2003 10:33 | ||
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| That's just a mathematical nightmare. I wouldn't want to play in one of those games for the simple reason that it would take far too much work ahead of time to know how to play. In fact I would go so far as to say that it isn't hold'em anymore. | ||
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| Re: Straddling, Andrew Wells, 13. Jun 2003 20:43 | ||
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| There are only a few here that make this play, and it doesn't happen very often. As usual, any rule variations are bound to be to a thinking player's advantage. Kill for example was not introduced until hold'em became popular. And this involves some subtle strategy variations which give a thinking player advantages. I actually welcome unusual changes in the game. Poker evolves anyway. | ||
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| Re: Straddling, Wren, 13. Jun 2003 11:03 | ||
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| Heh...."stroodle". That's what we call it in our dumb drunken $1-2 games. But I've been inclined to think of it with a "u", like the yummy dessert. Anyhoo. This is fodder for NQP at best :O) | ||
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| Re: Straddling, Andrew Wells, 13. Jun 2003 20:51 | ||
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| Because I mentioned it on UPF this morning, I also took time to explain it to two recreational players that were chiding each other to straddle in today's game. Even though I didn't make this play for demonstration purposes, they seemed to like the idea. I'm all for anything that will make the game that much more interesting for the casual player. I was just glad to take the small win today. It was too important to begin to turn the current slump around, than to liven up the table with such theatrics. | ||
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| Re: Straddling, stdioh, 13. Jun 2003 10:31 | ||
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| There is almost never a good reason to straddle. If you're in a game where the blinds get folded to a lot then you're able to raise out of UTG when you've got at least *something* and have a chance to steal. The liveness of the straddle is little consolation. Basically, the reason why this rule exists is that there are a lot of foolish players who like to straddle. When they are allowed to, no intelligent players will complain about this rule as it gives everybody else at the table an advantage (the BB gets the least amount of benefit). Its like insurance in blackjack. When do you take insurance? Only when the heat of the deck is at least +3. What does that mean? It means that the only people who benefit from insurance in blackjack are card counters. So why is there insurance? Because there are plenty of people who are stupid enough to take it. I'd like to play in a game that allows live straddles not because I would take advantage of them, but because other jimmies would. Likewise I like playing in kill games since there are people out there who *WANT* to win the kill button. | ||
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| Re: Straddling, Wren, 13. Jun 2003 11:01 | ||
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| Brantford Charity Casino doesn't allows straddling (which is a pity, as many of the players there would totally "take advantage" of this :O) ). I don't think Casino Rama (Orillia, Ontario) does either. When we have our st00pid post-tournament let's-get-drunk-and-play-$1-2 home games, I straddle a lot :O) Sometimes we get restraddles and rerestraddles, which obviously just gets stupid, but it's fun, and who cares at $1-2? :O) | ||
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| Re: Straddling, Scrubbie, 13. Jun 2003 14:25 | ||
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| Not much more to say about the "Straddle" that hasn't already been said. - It defeats the best play in poker, "raising on the button, to scoop the blinds"! This is no longer an option, seeing as your straddler is going to call with ANYTHING. Worse off, now you will not have any idea what he has! - Luckily, they don't allow the Straddle in California either. Scrubbie | ||
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