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Server Time: 12/3/2008 12:29:28 PM PACIFIC |
 newbie? How do I guard against trips?, Trace Erickson, 13. Jun 2003 08:26 | ||
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| Often I have had top pair and ended up getting beaten by a lower SET. What action should I take to bring someone's pocket pair to my eyes. It seems as if that is the hardest hand to pick up on. It's easy to see if someone is holding a flush or straight. Again, this may be child's play to all of you, but I'm new to the game and could use a little guidance. Thanks. | ||
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| Re: newbie? How do I guard against trips?, shorn, 13. Jun 2003 08:31 | ||
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| Unfortunately, there is no clear protection against having AA or KK lose to a 962 board and someone holding 66. The only time you can potentially safely throw your hand away to a turn raise is if the board is so uncoordinated (say J732) and you know your opponent well enough that they would never play 32 or J7. Otherwise, someone could be raising you with AJ which you would like. Any other board that has some coordination whether it be flushes, str8's or otherwise makes it more difficult to throw AA away because many players will semi-bluff raise with a 1 pair and a big draw. Bottom line, you are going to lose a lot of chips on these hands most of the time and 1 incorrect fold by you will cost you so much more than the 1 or 2 extra bets that you call that might win you the pot. | ||
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| Re: newbie? How do I guard against trips?, MozMan, 13. Jun 2003 08:34 | ||
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| on 13. Jun 2003 08:26 Trace Erickson wrote: > Often I have had top pair and ended up getting beaten by a lower SET. What > action should I take to bring someone's pocket pair to my eyes. It seems as if > that is the hardest hand to pick up on. It's easy to see if someone is holding > a flush or straight. Again, this may be child's play to all of you, but I'm new > to the game and could use a little guidance. Thanks. Hey- I'm probably not much more experienced than you are, but I will put in my .02 anyway: The set is a well-hidden hand. That's why we love to have it. I think there is very little you can do to protect against it except make careful note of player's behavior every time you see a set beat top pair. Youi are never going to see the set in the board, so you have to get good at seing it in the player; and that really only comes with experience. Here's one clue, that only works sometimes. If a player is being aggressive (betting out, raising, or check-raising) on the flop after having raised pre-flop, you need to consider the possibility that he has a medium or high set. Hey may also have top-pair with a big kicker, but the set is a possibility. -Moz "Hey, your schwartz is as big as my schwartz." | ||
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| Re: newbie? How do I guard against trips?, noiseboy, 13. Jun 2003 09:13 | ||
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| The bad news, you almost can't guard against sets when your opponents hit them. If you are playing you're top pair and they keep reraising you, you might just have to call them down as they might also be playing a good draw aggressively and crazy players may be bluffing altogether. The good news is that they are just as likely to have trouble reading you when it's your turn to have a set, thus you will eventually get those chips back. With top pair or an overpair, you want to play aggressively unless the flop screams danger to keep people from drawing out on you and it is inevitable that you will lose a bunch of chips to a set from time to time. | ||
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| Re: newbie? How do I guard against trips?, stdioh, 13. Jun 2003 10:24 | ||
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| Watch for betting patterns that indicate a set. If the flop has draws on it then sets will usually bet hard on the flop to protect their hands. If the board is uncoordinated then they will usually slowplay and then start jammit it on the turn for the higher amount. Thus if a player calls you on an uncoordinated flop and then raises you or checkraises you on the turn, the chance of your top pair, top kicker being good is very slim, unless you have reason to believe that he is putting a move on you. Likewise, if the board is coordinated and the guy raises or reraises the flop, the turn is a brick, and he continues to play hard, chances are that he is on at least a good 2 pair or set. It is important to know when your top pair is in trouble and be able to release it, or at least stop agressing it. | ||
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| Re: newbie? How do I guard against trips?, Big_Slick, 13. Jun 2003 11:47 | ||
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| Stdioh... good points. As has already been said, trips are bitch if you run into them but great if you hold them. If you play online or even in a B&M, look for "clues". Lets say that you are playing 3/6 online and hold A-K in early position. You raise before the flop. You get two callers... the button and the BB. The flop comes K-9-8. You are first to act and bet. The button folds and the BB hesitated. He puts up his bet and the next card is a 4. You bet with confidence and immediately, the BB bets. HUH? You're thinking, "What an idiot, what did he do, match his 4?". The next card brings a 2 and again you bet and the BB raises immediately. Now you're beginning to realize that you might be screwed. Sure enough, he had pocket 4's and he takes down the pot. Take the same situation but instead of the BB just calling on 4th street, he ends up raising you. Still another tricky situation. Just today I had K-Q in the BB when someone in early position raised. I called and the flop came 8-K-Q. There were 3 other people in the game so I checked with the intention of check-raising. I wanted to see what kind of reaction I got. Sure enough, the original raiser bet and I raised. He just called. The next round came a 6 and I bet. He raised me and I called figuring I'd see the river. It didn't help me. I checked and he bet. I folded. Some other idiot stayed till the end with A-K so I got to see the other's hole cards. He ended up having pocket 8's. What I thought was a great flop for me ended up being a disaster. Some times, you just smile and eat it. Hope this helps. | ||
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| Re: newbie? How do I guard against trips?, stdioh, 13. Jun 2003 12:40 | ||
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| That's certainly a ballsy read. If I was holding top 2 pair and the guy raised me on the turn I would be worried that he was holding a worse 2 pair and I'd probably pay him off. Still, if your read is good enough, then by all means good play. | ||
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| Re: newbie? How do I guard against trips?, smd, 13. Jun 2003 11:40 | ||
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| I agree with the others- an opponents set is sometimes very hard to read. Every once in a while you run into an ABC player who checks a flop of AQ9, then comes out betting on the turn when a 6 hits the turn,giving him a set. | ||
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| Re: newbie? How do I guard against trips?, Paul Stine, 13. Jun 2003 20:04 | ||
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| on 13. Jun 2003 08:26 Trace Erickson wrote: > Often I have had top pair and ended up getting beaten by a lower SET. What > action should I take to bring someone's pocket pair to my eyes. It seems as if > that is the hardest hand to pick up on. It's easy to see if someone is holding > a flush or straight. Again, this may be child's play to all of you, but I'm new > to the game and could use a little guidance. Thanks. Like the others have said all you can really do is make a judgement call based on the action. The more players in the hand the more likely it is that top pair won't hold up. If the pot is large (you raised pre-flop, right?) and heads up, you can always check and call. Since your opponent has been leading the action you can see his hand at the showdown and fold if you miss. (No one has seen your cards, there is no shame because a set will win most of the time.) On the other hand, if you are uncomfortable, you can fold. (Like I said, no one has seen your hand. You can always mumble about how you know you shouldn't play pocket 2's but you really like them.) Remember, AK is a slight dog to any poker pair and AA is a favorite. If your AA falls to a set, congradulate yourself that you got your opponent to call your raise with a big dog. Concentrate on the positive aspects of your play, not your negative outcomes or negative aspects on your opponents play. A pocket pair is about an 8:1 underdog to flop a set. Sklansky suggests that you should have about 5.5:1 pot odds to enter a pot in anticipation of flopping a set (based on implied odds when you do.) Did your opponent ignore those odds? Top pair will win a lot of pots in limit hold'em, but it isn't really that strong of a hand, especially against several opponents. Play it strongly, but don't go overboard in the face of resistance. Paul Stine College Station, tX | ||
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