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Server Time: 12/3/2008 1:50:28 PM PACIFIC |
 Playing online for a living., Steven Sherlacher, 12. Jun 2003 05:23 | ||
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| I am considering making this move, I currently make $35,000/year and beleive I can make $25/hr playing online. Now the questions 1. I am running a test of 200 hours in order to see if making a $25/hr is feasible, is this enought hours. 2. How much do I need to adjust my average because of the softness of games lately at Party (My featured site)? Do I need to make $30-35/hr. 3. How much does the fact that I do not have a college education affect this decision, just in case I do fail (I am 25) Any thoughts would be appreciated. Empire and Party are the same site correct? | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., asnyder, 12. Jun 2003 07:02 | ||
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| As the old adage goes "Don't quit your day job". Why would you want to give up a guaranteed $35K? There are no guarantees playing online. We all want to be optimistic and believe that we're the next best thing, but what happens when you hit a bad streak? Knowing that playing online is your only livelihood may cause you to make poor decisions. My advice, since you asked, is to keep your current job, and play online "part-time", build up your bankroll, keep track of your progress and more importantly, build discipline in your game for when those downswings come. Trust me, they do come. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., Big_Slick, 12. Jun 2003 07:38 | ||
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| Hi Steve, I'm not a professional, but I play one on TV. However, I can guess what some of the true professionals here on UPF will tell you. Don't quit your day job. I don't know what you do for a living, but being 25 and making $35K a year is a good position to be in. Some benefits of keeping your day job include health insurance, stability, mental well being and a dependable stream of cash. Some questions... 1) How long have you been playing? 2) Have you been making money playing part-time? 3) What level game are you planning on playing in that you believe you can make $25/hour? 4) Do you have an adequate bankroll? I don't think 200 hours is enough time. That is only a month of play. A lot can happen in one month. I would encourage you to keep your job and try poker part-time. Give it 3 or 4 months and see how things go. Work on your game and evaluate things at the end of this trial period. You've got the rest of your life to play poker. Be excited that you've got a good job and have a chance to make extra money playing part-time. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., Steven Sherlacher, 12. Jun 2003 07:51 | ||
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| I have only been playing for a year now. I have been making money playing, although I did not track it, after tracking for the past month I have extremely helped my game selection, and beleive this has gone from a weakness to a strength. I do not get in over my head and also quit when I am playing bad or just not as good as the other players. I understand this is the extreme short term, but for the month I am around $50/hr I would plan on playing 3/6 at both Party and Paradise. If I were to "go pro" my plan was to prove I could make $25/hr over an extended period of time and then build a bankroll, through work and play before I quit my job. My plan was as follows 2000-Party 2000-Empire 2000-Paradise 2000-Live Play (Not many games in my area) 5000-In Bank account. Thanks for your response! | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., Big_Slick, 12. Jun 2003 07:59 | ||
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| I might be wrong and some of you can back me up on this, but I don't think 4BB's per hour is realistic. If you could average 2BB/hour, you should be tickled pink. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., Steven Sherlacher, 12. Jun 2003 08:03 | ||
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| 2 tables at a time. I think with the increase of hands along with 2 tables 4 BB's is possible, I could be wrong I will keep you posted. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., Big_Slick, 12. Jun 2003 08:13 | ||
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| I personally do not play 2 tables at once. I am only able to focus on one table at a time. However, from what I've read and has been said on this forum, playing 2 tables at once does not double your hourly take. It's simply not that easy. But if you average 2BB/hour playing one table and average 2.7/hour playing 2, then it would obviously make sense to play 2. However, don't fall into the trap of thinking that playing 2 tables will double your profits. It just doesn't work that way. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., Brett Welch, 12. Jun 2003 07:40 | ||
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| I am definitely not an expert on the topic of becoming a pro, but I would even be concerned with things out of your control entirely. I am thinking about the possibility that online gambling could be made illegal. Although this possibility may be remote you never know what those jokers in Washington are going to do next. I would hate to quit my job and be doing everything right in my game and then all that be made illegal. With the job market the way it is now keep your job and cash that check every week. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., smd, 12. Jun 2003 07:44 | ||
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| 200 hours is not enough time to come up with reliable results. One thing to keep in mind about online poker (if you are from the US), congress has been constantly working hard on clamping down on funding of internet gambling sites. The House of Representatives passed a bill Tuesday that would stop credit cards and banks from funding online gaming sites. While this hasn't happened yet, there is a possibility of it happening somtime in the future. Then your online career would be over | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., gary ford, 12. Jun 2003 08:29 | ||
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| on 12. Jun 2003 07:44 smd wrote: > 200 hours is not enough time to come up with reliable results. > > One thing to keep in mind about online poker (if you are from the US), congress has > been constantly working hard on clamping down on funding of internet gambling sites. > The House of Representatives passed a bill Tuesday that would stop credit cards and > banks from funding online gaming sites. While this hasn't happened yet, there is a > possibility of it happening somtime in the future. Then your online career would be > over This raises some interesting questions: 1) How is poker defined ? The site charges a table fee to play but the action is between the players and the house is not involved. 2) How does the legal definition of " banked " games apply 3) What is to stop players from sending money by Western Union? 4) Would poker/only sites be exempt? 5) Would this legislation kill the boom that is building for poker? | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., smd, 12. Jun 2003 09:06 | ||
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| I believe they are targeting Western Union as well. The big problem for the poker sites is that this bill is aimed at online casinos in general. The fact that some may argue that poker is a skill game and not gambling will be lost on the legislature. Online poker would be caught in the dragnet with all the other online casinos. If this does pass- the poker sites are going to get tougher and tougher as the fish bust out and don't have a reasonable means of rebuying | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., gary ford, 12. Jun 2003 18:31 | ||
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| on 12. Jun 2003 09:06 smd wrote: > I believe they are targeting Western Union as well. > > The big problem for the poker sites is that this bill is aimed at online casinos in general. > The fact that some may argue that poker is a skill game and not gambling will be lost on the > legislature. Online poker would be caught in the dragnet with all the other online casinos. > > > If this does pass- the poker sites are going to get tougher and tougher as the fish bust out > and don't have a reasonable means of rebuying I consulted I.Nelson Rose, the leading authority on internet gaming and the law. Professor Rose, who has written a book on the Internet and the law that will be out this fall, is of the opinion that the language in the law as it now exists is vague in general and does a " poor job of defining gambling" The point is, no one knows if there will ever be a prohibition on poker on the internet or what shape the ban will eventually take. If you or any other poster would like, e-mail me and I will forward you the text of his opinion. garyford3@aol.com | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., gary ford, 12. Jun 2003 08:29 | ||
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| on 12. Jun 2003 07:44 smd wrote: > 200 hours is not enough time to come up with reliable results. > > One thing to keep in mind about online poker (if you are from the US), congress has > been constantly working hard on clamping down on funding of internet gambling sites. > The House of Representatives passed a bill Tuesday that would stop credit cards and > banks from funding online gaming sites. While this hasn't happened yet, there is a > possibility of it happening somtime in the future. Then your online career would be > over This raises some interesting questions: 1) How is poker defined ? The site charges a table fee to play but the action is between the players and the house is not involved. 2) How does the legal definition of " banked " games apply 3) What is to stop players from sending money by Western Union? 4) Would poker/only sites be exempt? 5) Would this legislation kill the boom that is building for poker? | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., Roy Cooke, 12. Jun 2003 08:30 | ||
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| Hi Steve Answers: 1. No, 200 hours is a small sample...2000 would be MUCH more accurate. I understand it is hard to get an accurate gauge when you work and can't get in the hours. If you pull the trigger there is risk you are not basing the judgment on accurate information. 2. Part of the problem with poker is the opportunities to make money are not always consistent. Internet poker may be illegal a year form now and not even be playable! 3. Another problem in poker is that your skills tend to decrease with age. That is not true in most professions. Having an out is a good idea! Roy Cooke on 12. Jun 2003 05:23 Steven Sherlacher wrote: > I am considering making this move, I currently make $35,000/year and beleive I > can make $25/hr playing online. Now the questions > 1. I am running a test of 200 hours in order to see if making a $25/hr is > feasible, is this enought hours. > 2. How much do I need to adjust my average because of the softness of games > lately at Party (My featured site)? Do I need to make $30-35/hr. > 3. How much does the fact that I do not have a college education affect this > decision, just in case I do fail (I am 25) > > Any thoughts would be appreciated. > > Empire and Party are the same site correct? > > | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., noiseboy, 12. Jun 2003 09:50 | ||
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| I'm still pretty young, so I can't say from personal experience, but I'd have to disagree with no 3 about skills decreasing with age. I mean they might, but a lot depends on how well you take care of yourself regarding diet and exercise. In the world of chess, Kasparov is getting up there in age and he still just kills everyone. In addition, Korchnoi is in his sixties and is still playing and winning at top level chess. I'm not sure what the poker equivalents are, but from what I hear Brunson still makes a ton of money in cash games. Research has been done recently that games that require a lot of brain power like chess and poker actually keep your brain from aging. In addition physical exercise has been shown to have the same effect. I think in practice many people do lose their poker skills with age, but I don't think that they have to lose them. Anyway Roy, keep the good Card Player articles coming, this is one of the rare occasions I disagree. :) | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., 4 POKER, 12. Jun 2003 10:12 | ||
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| I totally disagree with that as well. If your skills decrease with age as a pro poker player, then at what other form of work would they not decrease with age? If a person is skilled at what he does and applies those skills all the time and is in good mental and physical health and is constantly keeping himself up to date with all of the new theories and such, then there should be no reason why you couldn't be just as successful at age 50 as you were at age 30. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., noiseboy, 12. Jun 2003 10:33 | ||
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| Or age 70 for that matter; my grandmother is in her seventies, she still walks several miles a day, and her mind is still as sharp as a tack. What's really funny is that she makes her living "taking care of the old people." LOL | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., 4 POKER, 12. Jun 2003 10:50 | ||
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| on 12. Jun 2003 10:33 noiseboy wrote: > Or age 70 for that matter; my grandmother is in her seventies, she still walks several miles a day, > and her mind is still as sharp as a tack. What's really funny is that she makes her living "taking > care of Mthe old people." LOL That's fantastic, God bless her. Dave | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., timmer, 12. Jun 2003 10:15 | ||
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| I would like to add: a good exit strategy is paramount in any buisness. If you are going to play online for a living become a prop that way you actually will get paid for ever hour you work. dont quit your day job | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., noiseboy, 12. Jun 2003 10:33 | ||
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| do the online sites even have props? Just wondering. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., 4 POKER, 13. Jun 2003 04:38 | ||
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| Yes, on-line sites do have prop players. I know of two people who are props and they make money at it- but they also happen to be very good players as well so by being a prop just makes them extra money on top of it. I'm not really sure what all the qualifications are and what they require from you exactly, but there is a recent post titled, "Props Needed", if anyone wants to check it out. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., stdioh, 12. Jun 2003 08:36 | ||
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| First off, 200 hours is not enough to quit your day job over. I think it is a real mistake to jump into professional play without at least 2000 hours under your belt, unless you are forced into it by circumstance. I'd say that if you've put in 1000 hours it should give you a relatively good idea of how much you're making within 1 big bet. I think if you're serious about being an online pro you should be putting in 20 hours a week for 2 years in your spare time. That's 2000 hours. Then if things are going great, think about quitting the day job. Even then, I'd want to have a *very* solid bankroll behind me before going completely online pro. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., Mark, 12. Jun 2003 09:24 | ||
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| I have a related question for you. to make $35K a year online, what games and limits do you play, and how many hours a week do you play. Did you make $35K in the last 12 months, or are you multiplying last months wins by 12? Thanks mark | ||
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| Thanks, Steven Sherlacher, 12. Jun 2003 09:29 | ||
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| Thanks for the responses, you all have been very informative. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., noiseboy, 12. Jun 2003 09:31 | ||
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| 1. No I don't think this is enough hours, try to do at least 1000. 2. What sites you play or B&M casinos you play shouldn't matter much, wherever the loose action is where you should be playing. Table selection is 90% of winning poker. If it dries out at Party, move to another site that has the loose action you need to make a living. 3. Why not go to college while you are making your living playing poker? It will be a lot easier than going to school and having a real job. Get yourself some fat loan and scholarship checks to increase your bankroll. Anyway, it will also increase your options later, you don't want to play poker for a living for ten years, get burned out on it, and then not have any other education or skills. Also, you won't need to worry about this for a long time, but there are problems with playing poker for a living, like the extremely high cost of health insurance and the descrimination you will encounter in not having a real job. Even if you make 100k a year at poker, most banks will not give you a loan if you wanted to buy a house or car. Right now, I'm trying to organize the best of both worlds. My idea is to work part time for steady income (which will be nice those weeks and months when I'm running bad) at something I enjoy doing and play poker 20-30 hrs a week for some REAL money. Anyway, good luck and let us know how it's going. | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., 4 POKER, 12. Jun 2003 09:49 | ||
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| Why quit your job? You will need to put in way more hours than 200 to get an accurate read as to see if you really are a winning player or not. I would play part time while still keeping my present job. The convenience that you'll be getting from being able to put in some extra hours with on-line play may increase to your already existing 35K a year. So don't be too hasty as of yet, if you find out that you actually can make a better living from poker then at that time you can make the important decision as to which route will be better, more interseting, more fun, and more rewarding. Keep in mind that your job should fit in with your lifestyle as well. There really aren't that many people who are able to have a successful poker career because although it can be extremely rewarding to some, for many the lifestyle of a poker player can be a hard thing to conform to. You must be mentally prepared to be a pro as well as financially...just something to think about.. Best of luck to you in whatever path you take. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Playing online for a living., David R, 12. Jun 2003 10:18 | ||
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| I also believe 200 hours is way too small of a sample to change your career. I would suggest closer to 1000 hours and have at least one years salary banked ($35,000). I also don't think that banked money should include you poker bankroll which should be at least $10,000 if you are going to try and make a career out of it. Do not spend any of the $35,000 until you either prove successful at poker (probably 18 months to 24 months) of living completely off your poker winnings or abandon your plan. If you abandon you will at least have one year's salary saved for use while you pursue other options. | ||
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