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Server Time: 8/29/2008 12:11:59 PM PACIFIC |
 question about a winning hand., mongi, 11. Jun 2003 12:39 | ||
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| I recently won a big pot playing Kh jd from the button in a loose fairly aggressive 4-8 holdem game.To make a long story short seven of us saw the flop of 9s 10s 2c. there was no raise before the flop. Small blind bet everyone called. The Queen of clubs came on the turn no spade came on the river and I win with a king high straight. My question is, even though I won a big pot, was my call on the flop too loose cosidering the trouble I could get in with this type of board and that many player. My analysis: 1) I only had 3 clean outs, which were the 3 non spade queens. If a king or jack hit the turn that could complete a straight or a flush for someone. 2)With only 3 outs the odds of me hitting my hand were 15-1 assuming I was going to muck it on the turn if I didn't hit. I was getting only 13-1 pot odds at the time, although if my hand hit and it held up I had pretty good implied odds and I knew I couln't be raised after I bet. 3)Even if a non-spade Queen hit the turn I could now get outdrawn at the river if a jack fell and somebody had limped in with A-K, not to mention a spade hitting on the river to kill my hand. Does the opportunity to hit a big pot offset the risks in this situation or am I better of mucking this hand and staying out of trouble? The pots were very big in this game and people would stay in with marginal holdings to the river and many times even calling on the river. | ||
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| Re: question about a winning hand., shorn, 11. Jun 2003 12:45 | ||
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| I think I would have mucked the hand based on the exact factors that you put in your post. You have 3 clean outs, but you also need one more blank to fall as well. Someone could be in with T9 too, so a boat in the river is a possibility. You weren't quite getting the 15-1 necessary to call and with all those other factors, for me it would likely be a fold. | ||
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| Re: question about a winning hand., Piers Majestyk, 11. Jun 2003 13:10 | ||
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| I think I would have called in your position. Your calling odds may have been a slighly lower than the 44:3 if all of your other outs are indeed dead but one thing to think about is the small blind led into the field. Doing so I would put him on a pretty good hand (probably 2 pair or perhaps a set) to lead into the crowd. Given that he may indeed lead again if your Q hits you have the chance to punish everyone that calls for at least 2 BB. Given your hand may get crushed at the river I believe inder these circumstances it warrants a call. | ||
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| Re: question about a winning hand., stdioh, 11. Jun 2003 13:15 | ||
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| I think it is ok to call here under the right circumstances. Your pot odds were decent and since you were in last position you knew that you were going to get enough people coming along to get reasonable implied odds. Were you playing with folks who would pay you off when you did make it? True, the flush queen doesn't let you bet the socks off of it, but you have a decent chance of winning anyway. Also, if you hit one of your overcards there is a decent chance you are good there too. So I would say that paying the one bet on the flop was reasonable. Now calling a turn that doesn't hit you is dicier, but I think that you could pay to see one on the flop in this case. That said, I wouldn't call mucking a mistake either, by any stretch of the imagination. I would call this something that is dependant on style. | ||
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| Re: question about a winning hand., Schuster, 11. Jun 2003 13:22 | ||
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| > Does the opportunity to hit a big pot offset the risks in this situation or am > I better of mucking this hand and staying out of trouble? The pots were very big > in this game and people would stay in with marginal holdings to the river and > many times even calling on the river. This makes your implied odds go up. In a normal game, I would probably muck the hand with so many people in the pot. But if you hit, it sounds as though you could collect quite a few big bets if your hand held up. It's a judgement call, but off the top of my head (the quick, I have 30 seconds to figure it out kind), I'd say if you could collect 5 more bets if you did hit on the turn, you should play the hand. Lee | ||
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| Re: question about a winning hand., 4 POKER, 11. Jun 2003 15:32 | ||
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| I think with 7 players taking the flop, your hand did warrant a call. Being on the button will allow you to know exactly how much it is going to cost you on the flop considering the initial bettor was the small blind. Would I pay double or more bets to call the flop? probably not as that might suggest that you really do have only 3 clean outs. If I didn't hit the straight on the turn, I would probably muck the hand here and not pay any more money to see the river card. I wouldn't feel strong enough if I hit top pair on the turn either because someone very well could have now hit their straight or even two pair that might confuse you even more as to what to do here. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: question about a winning hand., Mark, 11. Jun 2003 16:41 | ||
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| I would probably call in that position. Even though there are 7 callers, at the 4-8 level (in my experience) there are usually some people drawing to low gutshot str8s and single overcards. Also, the SB might not have much of a hand, depending on what type of player he is. In fact, with no raises coming from the table, the entire table may be on weak hands that need improvement. This is not uncommon at the lower limit tables. i think calling is correct when you factor in implied odds. The flush draw would definately worry me, but i would still call. mark | ||
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| Re: question about a winning hand., PairTheBoard, 11. Jun 2003 23:02 | ||
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| Well, we don't have to guess about callers on the turn and river. How many big bets Did you get called on the turn and river? | ||
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