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Server Time: 8/21/2008 1:30:26 PM PACIFIC |
 WPT - Showing cards too soon, TKarrde, 11. Jun 2003 12:04 | ||
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| What is the ruling on showing your cards too soon in a hand? I saw that this happened at the Hollywood WPT when Buss thought Layne had thrown his cards in (layne threw his chips in) and Buss flipped his up. What is the ruling on this? Is it the same in a tourney as in a casino ring game? Thanks, TK | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, MozMan, 11. Jun 2003 12:27 | ||
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| Funny, this happened on Monday night when I was playing 3-6. It went down like this: During action on the flop, one player went to muck his cards and they flipped over, so the dealer held them out and announced them to the table, to ensure that all players had equal opportunity to see them. With three of us still left, me and the player to my left looked at the cards, but the guy at the other end of the table wasn't paying attention. The dealer got his attention, and when he saw the dealer holding a pair of cards in his hand, he turned his over, apparently thinking it was the showdown... then quickly recovered them. Both of us had seen his cards, and the action was to me. I bet out, knowing now he was drawing dead (compared to me) and I had him easily beat. The guy on my left folded, knowing now that he could not beat the hand he saw, and therefor had no chance against mine. The funny part is, the guy that showed his hand called my bet, then called my bet again on the river! Someone on his end of the table even told him that if I was betting out I obviously knew I had him beat, but he called both bets anyway, adding $12 to my pot. It was really too much. -Moz "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, stdioh, 11. Jun 2003 13:10 | ||
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| Most places make the rule "show one show all" - so if your cards are exposed to one or more players, they must be shown to the whole table. They are still in play, but now you must play them face up for the rest of the hand. It'll still influence the game and it is "against the rules" to show your cards, but it is the sort of thing that'll usually only bring down thunder if a player is doing it all the time. | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, Paul Stine, 11. Jun 2003 13:15 | ||
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| on 11. Jun 2003 12:04 TKarrde wrote: > What is the ruling on showing your cards too soon in a hand? I saw that this > happened at the Hollywood WPT when Buss thought Layne had thrown his cards in > (layne threw his chips in) and Buss flipped his up. What is the ruling on this? > Is it the same in a tourney as in a casino ring game? > > Thanks, > > TK In many larger buy-in tournaments (and many small buy-in tournaments now, also) any hand revealed before the end of play (except where there is no one left with the opportunity to act, i.e. everyone is all-in) is dead. In most tournaments Buss's hand would have been ruled dead and Layne would have been awarded the pot. I suspect that because of the nature of the 'celebrity invitational', the fact that it was being taped and the fact that it wa heads-ups between a 'celebrity' and a pro, that particular rule may have been 'overlooked.' Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, stdioh, 11. Jun 2003 13:23 | ||
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| I can see the need to kill the hand, in terms of an all-in player showing his very marginal or poor cards in order to encourage callers when he has already been called and wants odds. I could also see the opposite...I could see a big stack showing his cards against a small all-in player to discourage callers, ensuring that either the small stack only doubles or that his stack stays out of the hands of the other small stacks. | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, 4 POKER, 12. Jun 2003 04:54 | ||
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| You're correct Paul. A friend of mine accidentally turned up one of his hole cards in a triple draw low ball tournament at the WSOP, and his hand was declared dead. he had thought that the betting was completed where actually there was one more betting round left. He flipped up his card and the ruling was, his hand was dead. That seems a little strict considering the other player can have an advantage at seeing your hole cards, but I guess the rule was changed- I'm not sure, I don't play in tournaments, but that's what happened to my friend anyway. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, Schuster, 11. Jun 2003 13:26 | ||
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| I thought that was funny too. I always thought you were allowed to reveal your cards before the hand was over, and I have actually done so in a few no limit events when someone pushes in on me. What's the harm in giving your opponents additional information? | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, Paul Stine, 11. Jun 2003 14:39 | ||
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| on 11. Jun 2003 13:26 Schuster wrote: > I thought that was funny too. I always thought you were allowed to reveal your cards > before the hand was over, and I have actually done so in a few no limit events when > someone pushes in on me. What's the harm in giving your opponents additional > information? > I don't want to debate the merits (or demerits) of showing one's hand before the action is complete. All I am saying is that if you do it, in many tournaments your hand will be declared dead and you will forfeit any interest you have in the pot. (Which is about the greatest incentive I can see for not doing it.) I believe that this is the rule at the WSOP. That being said, a quick check of the Tournament Directors' Association rules (which is about the only set of published tournament rules out there) states in rule 36: A player who exposes his cards during the play may incur a penalty, but will not have his hand killed. So, as usual, it depends. (Your mileage may vary.) Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, JLenart, 11. Jun 2003 14:48 | ||
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| A situation that might be similar to this occured in a tournament I was recently playing in. This game was not in a professionally run card room but rather amoung a large group of locals. I'm wondering wehat your thoughts are. A player with the large stack decided to muck his cards. Aside from him there were still two other players in the hand. Before he mucked his cards he showed them to the player to his right , who was no longer in the hand. A player, who was short stacked asked to see these cards under the "show one show all rule". Obviosly a large controversy ensued. If you were to settle this dispute what would you have done? The tournament director decided to leave the cards in the muck face down as if no one had ever seen them. Was this right? I have varing feelings about this | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, JLenart, 11. Jun 2003 14:50 | ||
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| the short stack player was still actively involved in the hand | ||
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| Re: WPT - Showing cards too soon, MozMan, 11. Jun 2003 15:29 | ||
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| I think the tourney director was right. The only players that have rights under the rule are thsoe with live hands. If one player with a live hand had seen the cards, then all should. If the player that saw the cards was not live, then it has no effect. -Moz "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." | ||
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