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Server Time: 12/3/2008 5:45:32 PM PACIFIC |
 reraising, Banning, 10. Jun 2003 21:22 | ||
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| I was analyzing my play. I think one of my bigger leaks is reraising. I would almost say that if I never reraised ever I would probably still be reraising too often. I'm going to try playing for about a month without ever reraising unless I have the nuts. See if it helps my winnings. Just wondering if anybody else any insight into reraising? | ||
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| Re: reraising, Big_Slick, 10. Jun 2003 22:02 | ||
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| Wow... most players don't raise enough so you are a rare breed. Let's list the reasons that a player might raise in a poker game. Most people already know this, but it's always good to refresh the ol' memory. - Obviously to get more money into the pot. - To get players out and protect your hand - You might raise looking for "information" - To get a free card on the next round of betting - Just as a bluff (though I wouldn't advise it with more than 2 people... preferably one) - To get players out of a hand so that you are head to head with only one player. I'm sure there are more... these are just the ones I can think of right now. So the question you need to ask yourself is, why are you raising? Most poker players only raise when they think they have the better hand and want to get more money into the pot. I can't say that I blame them since Hollywood portrays poker players as chip-raising maniacs. (Can you remember a poker scene where there wasn't a raise in the script?) Anyways, don't be so quick to write off raises. You just need to figure out what it is you are trying to accomplish by raising. I will raise a lot to protect my hand if I feel I'm in the lead. Especially if the flop brings 2 cards of the same suit or in sequence and there are multiple players left in the game. I want to make it as expensive as I can for these players to draw to their flushes or straights. If I know that someone will bet for me and I'm in early position, I'll simply check with the intention of raising. A check-raise seems to be a little more intimidating to a lot of players and has been fairly effective for me in 3/6 games. Just depends on your table. Anyways, I hope this makes you think a little. So now that you've read this, what have you been trying to accomplish by raising? | ||
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| Re: reraising, Big_Slick, 10. Jun 2003 22:31 | ||
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| I'm an idiot... after writing my long response, I now realize that your question was about re-raising. Oh well. I'll leave it up.. maybe it will help someone. | ||
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| Re: reraising, 4 POKER, 10. Jun 2003 23:07 | ||
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| if you're saying that one of your biggest leaks comes from re-raising, then you probably are being overly aggressive when your hand or the situation does not warrant you to. If you were to re-raise your opponent/s, then you should be doing this for valid reasons. You shouldn't just take that part out of your game completely, but you probably are going to need to reevaluate your play so you can focus as to why your re-raises are not working and leaving you in the negative for doing so. There are many reasons why a player would re-raise the pot, but each hand is separate from all the others and this is where adjusting your play and your important decision making come into play. You must say to yourself with every hand that you play; what would be the most profitable/optimal coarse of action that would increase my odds and give me the bigger advantage at that very moment during the hand. I think if you can focus more and understand why you are re-raising, than it might make more sense to you to make that play, or to not make that play. But like I said, each hand is separate from the next, and what may be the correct play on one hand may not necessarily be the correct play for the next hand; even if both hands were to be the same holding. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: reraising, Banning, 11. Jun 2003 07:01 | ||
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| Upon further consideration I would even like to narrow my reraising error. My error is reraising on the turn and/or river. Some players are willing to play quite liberally on the flop, betting and raising and reraising quite alot to set up free cards or semi bluff or what have you. Most players; that I play against at least, don't make those same plays when the bets double, they tighten up quite alot. Thus; when a person raises my bet on the turn, he very probably has a serious holding, and me reraising would be quite the error unless I have an even stronger holding. Do most players play looser on the flop but tighten up on the turn and river? Thanks. | ||
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| Re: reraising, shorn, 11. Jun 2003 07:08 | ||
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| I think the answer to this depends on the limit. Up to and including 5-10, you can be comfortable that most players will not raise on the turn without a strong holding (which includes a semi-bluff raise of turning the nut flush draw with 2 overcards and in my experience, not that many players do this one either). So, if you only have overcards or a draw, then you need to consider that there is a chance that your overcard outs are no good (someon has a set or 2 pair) so to call the raise, you need to adjust odds downward and make sure that if you hit your draw it will be good. You should only re-raise with a very strong holding (like top set) to get out other draws that could beat you. At the higher limits, re-raising the turn after you have shown strength on the flop can be a very powerful play against the right aggressive opponent. But, at the lower limits most players will not laydown a medium or even good hand, so it isn't worth it unless you are pretty sure you are ahead. | ||
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| Re: reraising, Snorbolus, 11. Jun 2003 07:50 | ||
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| I think that, in the cases of most players, you are right: raises on the turn and river generally mean that they have the goods. In the absence or any other information I always assume that a turn or river raiser has a legit raising hand. However, there are players out there who love to bluff on the expensive streets. It is a good idea to learn who these players are. There are one or two like this who I play against quite frequently. Obviously I would rather that they did not engage in this sort of trickery (against me at least); because it means that I have to pay them off those times that they do have the goods. But how can I stop them? I have to show them that it is a bad idea, by re-raising whenever I get slightest hint that their raise is bogus (assuming there are not other callers between and that I have a hand). I want these players to know that when they bluff-raise into me a re-raise is a real possibility. Snorbolus on 11. Jun 2003 07:01 Banning wrote: > Upon further consideration I would even like to narrow my reraising error. My error is > reraising on the turn and/or river. Some players are willing to play quite liberally on > the flop, betting and raising and reraising quite alot to set up free cards or semi bluff > or what have you. Most players; that I play against at least, don't make those same > plays when the bets double, they tighten up quite alot. .......... | ||
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| Re: reraising, stdioh, 11. Jun 2003 08:23 | ||
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| There are times when it is a mistake not to reraise though. You sometimes need to protect your hand. For instance, lets say that 7 players see the flop and it is 972 with a flush draw. You are holding TT. Now you are probably up against somebody with top kicker...small chance of an overpair and small chance of somebody having 2 pair. Needless to say there are probably players all over the place with overcards, flush, and straight draws. What you need to do is make it too expensive for them to stay in, so that they either fold and don't draw against your vulnerable hand or that they pay too much to enter the pot, violating the fundamental theorem of poker. So when UTG bets out and you raise, you'll fold off a lot of draws. Now somebody with JK pitches his cards and you have a chance of standing up when a jack falls. Likewise, you might checkraise here too. Lets say that nobody bets out and you don't think you can fold players off with a single bet, but in late position is a player who likes to bet when nobody else has. You check to the late position frequent bettor and then checkraise out of early position. Now you get a lot of respect for your checkraise and fold out the gutshots and overcards. Just making a call here is a huge mistake as you have a very slim chance of winning this hand with everybody coming along even if you are currently the leader. | ||
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| Re: reraising, stdioh, 11. Jun 2003 08:27 | ||
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| Whoops...I fell into the same hole as big slick. When you're talking about reraising, you shouldn't be doing it often. If you bet out and somebody raises and you are heads up and holding the nuts, a reraise is requisite. Likewise, if you have AA or KK preflop and it is raised there is almost no excuse for not 3 betting. If you flop a temporary but vulnerable nuts in a multiway pot, again you should be betting the bejesus out of it. For instance say you flop Q94 with pocket queens and the board has a flush draw. Now you bet and get raised, there's no reason not to reraise here as you definitely have the best of it and you don't want anybody drawing against you. The raiser is representing a made hand and you want your QQQ against a made QQ99, 999, or some such thing. Thus you're not afraid of the raiser, but you are afraid of the chasers. So yeah, there are times to do it, but if you find yourself reraising with top pair top kicker against a solid opponent heads up, you need to give your head a shake. | ||
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| Re: reraising, Banning, 11. Jun 2003 16:05 | ||
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| Yeppers that was what I did, and now: consider my head shook! | ||
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