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Server Time: 8/20/2008 3:26:19 AM PACIFIC |
 don't slow play AA, tron, 9. Jun 2003 17:05 | ||
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| I have 2 aces raise the standard 450, blinds 75-150 flop comes Aspd, Jack spade, 8 diamond i bet 150 he calls nexxt card 10 hearts, i bet 700, he calls next card 7 of clubs, i move all in, he calls and takes the pot with 99! would a all in after the flop be the correct play? | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, psuasskicker, 9. Jun 2003 19:44 | ||
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| Top set after the flop...tough call. You're maybe concerned with KQ or 10 9 with belly buster / open end straight draws. I think I would probably move in such a way that doesn't allow draws to remain in the pot unless they're not playing well. Someone drawing a backdoor straight is ridiculous. I think he probably put you on KQ suited, cause if he put you on anything else unless he thought you were purely bluffing he's an idiot. Any Ace or Jack has him beat, as well as pocket Ks, Qs and 10s, which I would consider to be necessary for someone to move over the blinds so high pre-flop. That, or he's not thinking at all and is truly a terrible player. Bottom line, you probably want to bet out a draw here with a flop like that, but would like calls if he's not drawing. I'd put in a bet equal to the pot or slightly greater than the pot on the flop, and probably go 2x the pot (or all in) after the turn. - C - | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, mdf, 9. Jun 2003 20:32 | ||
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| test | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, Paul Stine, 9. Jun 2003 20:47 | ||
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| on 9. Jun 2003 17:05 tron wrote: > I have 2 aces > > raise the standard 450, blinds 75-150 > flop comes Aspd, Jack spade, 8 diamond > i bet 150 he calls > nexxt card 10 hearts, i bet 700, he calls > next card 7 of clubs, > i move all in, he calls and takes the pot > with 99! > > would a all in after the flop be the correct play? > > So I assume that there is 75+150+450+450 in the pot, let see, that is 1125. That's 7.5 big blinds. Your bet of 1 big blind gives your opponent 8.5:1 odds, almost enough to call with a gutshot straight. On the flop, the board is coordinated enough that you could be in trouble from a couple different draws the worst of which is probably Ts9s. A straight draw is about 2.1:1 against getting there and a flush is about 1.9:1. I think you should bet twice the pot if your money (or your opponents money) is deep. If your money isn't deep push it all in. If your opponent has barely enough to cover a bet twice the pot you should make your bet enough to put him all in. Force your opponent make the biggest mistake you can. If he makes the mistake of calling and gets there, then that is just poker. If you leave the door open, don't be surprised when somebody walks in. Another concept that should be pointed out here is one of continuity in betting. Your raise preflop says that you have a pretty decent hand. You bet on the flop says you missed. I think that when faced with conflicting information most amateur opponents will choose to call. The board in this case is way to coordinated and "in the playing zone" for you to be tricky or ambiguous with your betting. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, 4 POKER, 9. Jun 2003 23:33 | ||
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| on 9. Jun 2003 20:47 Paul Stine wrote: > on 9. Jun 2003 17:05 tron wrote: > > I have 2 aces > > > > raise the standard 450, blinds 75-150 > > flop comes Aspd, Jack spade, 8 diamond > > i bet 150 he calls > > nexxt card 10 hearts, i bet 700, he calls > > next card 7 of clubs, > > i move all in, he calls and takes the pot > > with 99! > > > > would a all in after the flop be the correct play? > > > > > > So I assume that there is 75+150+450+450 in the pot, let see, that is 1125. That's > 7.5 big blinds. > > Your bet of 1 big blind gives your opponent 8.5:1 odds, almost enough to call with a > gutshot straight. > > On the flop, the board is coordinated enough that you could be in trouble from a > couple different draws the worst of which is probably Ts9s. A straight draw is about > 2.1:1 against getting there and a flush is about 1.9:1. > > I think you should bet twice the pot if your money (or your opponents money) is > deep. If your money isn't deep push it all in. If your opponent has barely enough to > cover a bet twice the pot you should make your bet enough to put him all in. > > Force your opponent make the biggest mistake you can. If he makes the mistake of > calling and gets there, then that is just poker. > > If you leave the door open, don't be surprised when somebody walks in. > > Another concept that should be pointed out here is one of continuity in betting. > Your raise preflop says that you have a pretty decent hand. You bet on the flop says > you missed. I think that when faced with conflicting information most amateur > opponents will choose to call. The board in this case is way to coordinated and "in > the playing zone" for you to be tricky or ambiguous with your betting. > > Paul Stine > College Station, TX "If you leave the door open don't be surprised if someone walks in". What a great line and it's so true, too. I think that because your bet was so small in relation to the size of the pot and the fact that the board was coordinated, that that alone could have been the primary factor as to why you lost the pot. Just look at what your opponent was willing to call you with here,and realize that some players really do play bad poker. By not putting the right amount of pressure on your opponent will give him an easier shot to draw out on you You can't asume that just because you flopped a set of Aces that your bet on the flop should be of a size amount that would leave your opponent.with an easy and correct call. Players are not as astute as you may think they are, and all too often are calling bets with inferior holdings. You must be able to calculate the correct amount to bet so you won't be easily drawn out on but are also betting an amount that will allow your opponets to make catastrophical mistakes. Don't assume that your opponent knows exactly what you have here, from my experiences with on-line players, most of them are actually unaware of their mistakes and are really not as good/experienced as you may think they are. In fact, so many of them are really quite clueless! Sorry, but poker is not mastered in a day and there are thousands of on-line players that are playing this game for the first time in their lives. If you can be better than your opponents(and that means by making the accurate bet in a NL tourney as well), then you'll be miles ahead of your oposition. Put the pressure on them all the time and let them make the mistakes(calling substantial bets when their hand doesn't warrant it and so on) and trust me, they will If you get drawn out on, then so be it-that's poker; but as long as YOU are making the most accurate decisions that you can make is all that will matter because everything else will balance out and hopefully the scales will tip in your favor.. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, Roy Cooke, 10. Jun 2003 02:14 | ||
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| You want him to call the flop...You have MUCH the best of that bet...You just don't want him to get there! Roy Cooke on 9. Jun 2003 17:05 tron wrote: > I have 2 aces > > raise the standard 450, blinds 75-150 > flop comes Aspd, Jack spade, 8 diamond > i bet 150 he calls > nexxt card 10 hearts, i bet 700, he calls > next card 7 of clubs, > i move all in, he calls and takes the pot > with 99! > > would a all in after the flop be the correct play? > > > | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, stdioh, 10. Jun 2003 12:03 | ||
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| It depends on the size of the pot. Don't bet all in when the bet is greater than the size of the pot. It is almost always unnesessary and there are very few places where I will do that. Making a pot sized bet is fine though. | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, MozMan, 10. Jun 2003 14:32 | ||
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| I don't think all in on the flop was necessary, but it should have been a big enough bet to make the pot-odds incorrect for him to draw the straight at least... maybe a pot-sized bet, so that he is only getting 2:1 from the pot. -Moz "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, Paul Stine, 10. Jun 2003 20:37 | ||
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| on 10. Jun 2003 14:32 MozMan wrote: > I don't think all in on the flop was necessary, but it should have been a big enough > bet to make the pot-odds incorrect for him to draw the straight at least... maybe a > pot-sized bet, so that he is only getting 2:1 from the pot. > > -Moz > > "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." The problem with a pot size bet is that 2:1 pot odds give the flush draw sufficient odds to continue. You have to overbet the pot so that your opponent is not getting sufficient odds to correctly continue (neglecting implied odds.) Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: don't slow play AA, DJ712, 11. Jun 2003 02:15 | ||
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| Was it a tournament? If you ask me, I'd say yes. If you got some money out of them pre-flop, then blow them out of the water with a raise on the flop to make them fold and be happy with collecting some chips in a tourney. Runner runner sucks. And it happens way too much in my opinion in tournaments and limit side games. It pisses everyone off (me too) but there is one thing you can do in a no-limit tournament with AA that you can't do in a limit side game: Push it all in. TJ Cloutier: The only hand you can go all-in with before the flop in a no-limit tournament is Aces. | ||
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