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Server Time: 12/3/2008 12:13:32 PM PACIFIC |
 Is low limit OLP easiest or hardest?, Kyle Stark, 6. Jun 2003 17:03 | ||
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| I'm a winning B & M low limit player but a losing OLP low limit player. I've read and heard everything from its so easy your retarded if you can't beat it every time and I've read/heard that its actually not beatable. I'm not looking for responses necessarily about "oh adjust your game to drawing hands, fit of fold blah blah" I want peoples input about how can you beat a game when 8 People see the flop, and 6 of them are at showdown. I just think that there's just too many times that there are sessions where before the river you have a 70-90% EV and end up losing which continues for the rest of the night. I know there are people that do beat these games consistent enough to be winning olp players and actually win pretty big, I'm just saying that you get outdrawn by the most inane way too many times to consider Low limit OLP sooooooooo easy. What do you think? | ||
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| Re: Is low limit OLP easiest or hardest?, Swagman, 6. Jun 2003 18:24 | ||
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| My personal experience as a consistent winner at 10/20 or 15/30 hold'em player, and a miserable loser at lower 2/4 lets say. The game is not unbeatable, however the grind at winning is insane and makes the game completely uninteresting. The problem with the game is that you have the extremes, which will fold at anything thus not paying you and if they are not folding it generally means you are going to pay them. And the I-dont-care types that will call you down no matter what cuz its such as small amount of money to invest. These two components make a very unwholesome combination. How to play this type of game? I suggest that you dont. If you have any type of game at all think about moving up. Moving up will present yourself with a whole new set of problems, however, at least your not banging your head over a pot that is unsubstantial in size. But if your gonna play it, realizing that the game is more about the 'nutz' will help. Realizing that your 2nd best hand is gonna be beaten alot. Realizing that a raise pre-flop and throughout the streets doesnt hold much wieght, in fact, it is in most cases doing more harm then good for you. Realizing that alot more people are going to see the flop alot more often and what kind of holding hands facilitate this type of game. | ||
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| Re: Is low limit OLP easiest or hardest?, 4 POKER, 6. Jun 2003 21:46 | ||
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| You say that you're a winning low limit player in the B&M, but are not a winning player at those limits when you play on-line, correct? Maybe you should ask yourself, why? I read that you didn't want to hear responses like, "Oh, adjust your game, blah, blah, blah"... but that is a very big part of poker that you must be capable of adhering to, I'm sorry. I play at much higher limits when I play at the B&M, but when I play on-line, I prefer to play at the lower limits($3-6-5-10). I don't have any problems beating those games but I definitely am aware of the players that I am playing with and I do make adjustments when playing certain hands against certain types of players, you have to.(keeping player notes will be very helpful to you) It's very easy to press buttons when you play on-line poker, but if you play the same game that you play in the B&M's, and you are a consistent winning player, then there should be no reason why you shouldn't be able to beat the lower limits on line as well. { could it be possible that you're playing too many hands, like I said, it's very easy to press buttons}. I'm not saying that you are, I'm just asking is it possible? For myself, I play much tighter when I'm playing on-line because you are getting dealt so many more hands in a short period of time that there is no reason to enter a pot unless you're holding a strong hand. I used to play at the higher limits but felt that there were way too many swings, way more then in a live card room and that is because so many of these players (that come from all over the world) that play on-line poker and at these limits as well have never even stepped into a B&M and probably have very little or next to no experience at all. They think that by being aggresive will make them winning players and so many of them have only one gear and that is full speed ahead. They are extremely aggresive and when you add that into the equation of the number of hands that are being dealt out every hour, the swings`can be enormous.Grant it, over time, you may come out on top, but the short term results on line can be devistating to your bankroll.(I'm talking about the $15-30, and 20-40 limits).I actually know of someone who lost over $12,000 in just one weekend of play at the $20-40 level. This person usually holds his own in the B&M's but for some reason got too caught up in the extreme fast/aggresive pace of on-line poker. Now I'm not sure as to what you classify a low limit table to be but in my experience I find that the $5-10 games consist of a little bit more stability. What has seemed to work for me is, I put in multiple sessions per day if I plan on commiting myself to only playing on-line for that particular day. It gives me the opportunity to go in and out of games, trying to just tack on little wins here and there. It also gives me a chance to re-evaluate my play. Because the games move at such a high-speed pace, it is easy to lose focus sometimes, and by taking breaks, even small ones has helped me considerably. Not to mention that all those wins add up real nicely at the end of the day. And if you are have a losing session, that taking a break will also allow you to re-group and will allow you to not lose too much during one session of play.(that is when we sometimes go on tilt, so that can be avoided here as well now). On-line poker does have its advantages simply because we can take multiple breaks without having to worry about looking at the clock...you're already home! If you're a hold-em player and are still having a hard time beating the OLP, then you might want to try playing in a short-handed(5 player max) game. You never know, you may be more successful at short-handed hold-em and won't have to worry about an entire table chasing you down all the time. It is a preference for many people and who knows, you may have more positive results. Good luck to you. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Is low limit OLP easiest or hardest?, flintsword, 7. Jun 2003 09:46 | ||
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| Ok, you don't want responses of "adjust your game to drawing hands, fit of fold blah blah". Ok, that is a fair request. I'll assume you know that adaptability is really important and the "blah, blah" is a great opportunity to face a weakness and address it. Other ideas? Well, one solution proposed was that you move up, but unfortunately, the lack of some of the essentials of drawing hands, etc., will kill you surer than the Dodo in a higher limit game. Try playing fewer hands to free up your time to calculate pot odds for the winners on the table. It addresses your losses Online automatically by reducing hands that are being killed off and starts training your mind to evaluating pots from an odds point of view. If you have the right temperament, this gets really interesting. Give it a few hours though, it will take your brain and character some time to adjust to this discipline, ... and helping your card discipline would, IMO, be the best thing you can do at this point to improve your game. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Is low limit OLP easiest or hardest?, Swagman, 7. Jun 2003 18:52 | ||
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| Moving up was a suggestion as an experiment. I know several higher limit players that absolutely sux at low limit games, either there play is too aggressive or becuase of the size of the pot they are uninterested. I am one of them. Finding the right table for you may not be a low limit one. A 2/4 limit holdem game is different then a 10/20 holdem game. Just as NL is different then A PL game. I think it is fuzzy logic to assume that because you dont excell at a 2/4 game you will not do better in a higher limit game, however it is often the case, because the player probably hasn't learned enuff fundemental poker's skill to hang with bigger fish. But it is very possible that your game may be better in a different venue, if you find out that its a harder game to beat then try another, if your still having problems then I would suggest that you stop making excuses for youself. And find one vareant of poker and play it until you become a dominant force and can reliably make a profit. | ||
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| Re: Is low limit OLP easiest or hardest?, shorn, 9. Jun 2003 05:00 | ||
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| Fold a lot. I agree with 4 POKER...there is no reason to enter a pot without a good hand because you get so many hands an hour that you generally don't have to wait long for a good starting hand. Also, you must know when to lay down your good starting hands. If you start with AKs, raise, 5 others come along, and the flop comes rags, don't waste your time (or money) trying to push people off...it won't work. And, with a rag flop and AK, you likely only have 3 clean outs as everyone and their mother plays Ax in LL online. Bottom line, muck and be done with it and move on to the next one. You are going to get run down a lot. But, you will also be called often when you shouldn't be. So, the key is dumping the loser's early so that you don't eat into the winner's profit. Good luck. | ||
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