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Server Time: 12/3/2008 12:09:38 PM PACIFIC |
 PL O/8 tournament hand, Mark, 4. Jun 2003 13:24 | ||
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| I was playing an online Pot limit Omaha/8 tournament yesterday. 43 entrants put up a whopping $1 each and the site put up an extra $50. top 5 get paid approx 40/30/15/10/5. with about 20 players left i get A2xx in late position. I have a slightly better than avg stack with T4000. I limp after about 4 others, and the blinds also limp. Blinds are 300-600. The flop comes down 456. UTG opens for the pot. The next player raises all in for T6000. Before it comes to me another player goes all-in. If i call for T4000(all-in) i am entitled to about T12,000 total. So i'm getting approx 2:1. The original raiser UTG still has to act, so there may be a few more chips i'm entitled to if i call. What should i do? I folded. I figured that since i have no chance at the high end, i can only win T6000. With a pot bet and two all-ins, there are pretty good odds i'll have to split the low, which means i'll bet T4000 to win T3000, a T1000 loss ( if the original raiser also calls, i would come out even if i split). I decided the risk outweighed the possible benefit. (And what if 3 of us split for the low, i'd end up short stacked) I folded and still feel pretty good about it. I kept my just above average stack, caught some good cards, and ended up 2nd. When this particular hand ended, the 1st all-in player had the nut str8 with no low, the 2nd all-in player had a flush draw and A3 low, and the original raiser folded. So i would have taken the low half of the pot. mark | ||
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| Re: PL O/8 tournament hand, stdioh, 4. Jun 2003 13:57 | ||
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| I don't think you should be limping that late in the tourney with A2XX, but I'm not a tournament O8 player, so that may be way off base. Notwithstanding, I think I would have called all-in there. First, you know that you're not busting out unless your low gets badly counterfeited. If you aren't quartered for the low then you have great equity against the others and 456 is the kind of flop that people will want to bet hard on, especially if there is a flush draw. The guy with a made straight and straight redraws wants to push here so as to fold off flush draws without enough outs to call. So given that there was preflop money in the pot plus this action on the flop, I think I would go for it. You need to chip up - if you lose you are only dumping an additional 1K from which you could still wait for a doubling opportunity and splash some money in - you're not totally boned if you get quartered. But if you don't get quartered then you're taking a good and needed chip increase. Now, if you get counterfeited and lose the whole thing, that is pretty lousy. I would be much more worried about that than about getting quartered. Long and short, I wouldn't go in here at all, but if I saw that flop and I was shortstacked like that, then I would go all in. And like I said, I'm not an O8 touney player - I've never played in one, so the confluence of my hold'em tournament strategy and my PLO8 ring game may not jive at all. | ||
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| Re: PL O/8 tournament hand, Risky Business, 4. Jun 2003 14:32 | ||
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| I wouldn't go all-in here unless it was only against 1 player. With 20 people left, I'd like to see the field dwindle a bit more. If you consider the $1 entry fee $100, you'll realize that this could be your last hand when the Ace or 2 hits. I'd like more outs. Recall the 4-cards-working-together-in-many-ways post. on 4. Jun 2003 13:57 stdioh wrote: > I don't think you should be limping that late in the tourney with A2XX, but I'm not a > tournament O8 player, so that may be way off base. Notwithstanding, I think I would > have called all-in there. First, you know that you're not busting out unless your low > gets badly counterfeited. If you aren't quartered for the low then you have great > equity against the others and 456 is the kind of flop that people will want to bet > hard on, especially if there is a flush draw. The guy with a made straight and > straight redraws wants to push here so as to fold off flush draws without enough outs > to call. So given that there was preflop money in the pot plus this action on the > flop, I think I would go for it. You need to chip up - if you lose you are only > dumping an additional 1K from which you could still wait for a doubling opportunity > and splash some money in - you're not totally boned if you get quartered. But if you > don't get quartered then you're taking a good and needed chip increase. Now, if you > get counterfeited and lose the whole thing, that is pretty lousy. I would be much > more worried about that than about getting quartered. > > Long and short, I wouldn't go in here at all, but if I saw that flop and I was > shortstacked like that, then I would go all in. > > And like I said, I'm not an O8 touney player - I've never played in one, so the > confluence of my hold'em tournament strategy and my PLO8 ring game may not jive at > all. | ||
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| Re: PL O/8 tournament hand, 4 POKER, 5. Jun 2003 03:20 | ||
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| The problem with pushing all in with A2xx is, the hand does not start out with enough strong potential for high unless you flop a wheel. You see without any protection on the low part of the starting hand, those cards are in great danger to counterfeiting themselves. The hand is not suited and that also takes away from the potential of this starting and the fact that he labled his hand as A2xx, that states that the other two cards were not even ones that would allow him to make a nut straight either(10,J,Q,K) for those 4 cards are not perceived as x-x cards). If I were to be pushing all in, even in late position, I would most definitely want a strong hand that could allow me to scoop the pot even if the low side of the hand was a little weak.(a low is not always made but a high hand is). Now of course if this was a limit game you need not be concerned about committing all of your chips, but in PL Omaha, you would be better off risking the strength of the low draw and enter the pot by the strength of the higher end,IE, AA57 or A4QK are much stronger than a naked ace deuce with 2 rag cards, especially against a short or heads up situation. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: PL O/8 tournament hand, Andrew Wells, 4. Jun 2003 16:13 | ||
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| Actually you are playing for a piece of at least 7200 if you call all-in. Four limpers before you called preflop and both blinds makes 4200 in preflop chips. Plus 3400 twice from the two all-in players in front of you on the flop is a pot of at least 14400. If you are quartered at this point there are up to four bad cards left in the deck, but you only gain 200 more than if you just fold. You only gain enough when you are not quartered, and no ace or deuce falls on the turn or river. Having a player behind you, or a blind overcalling may affect the situation enough to sway a decision from fold to an all-in call. This would be particularly so if the players yet to act are larger stacks than you. So you would be gambling 17 to make 1 if no one else comes in that you don't get counterfeited. Or up to 34 to make 11 (depending on the next caller's stack size) if someone else calls. This is all assuming there is another A2 out there. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect this to be the case with seven players taking the flop, and particularly two all-ins. So I wouldn't risk the possibility of being knocked out for a few extra chips here either. I don't see any problem with your naked A2 call preflop since you can't really anticipate what occured with the flop betting. If there was less flop action, then you would be justified in pushing all-in since you wouldn't be overcalling. There is always some possibility you may flop full, trip aces, or a meaningful wrap with your side cards along with the nut low draw. All in all worth taking the 600 shot in a certain multiway pot before the flop. Nice fold, good finish. | ||
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| Re: PL O/8 tournament hand, 4 POKER, 5. Jun 2003 00:20 | ||
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| When playing Omaha 8, if you simply just have Ace, deuce with two rag cards, than your ideal situation would be to just limp in(as you chose to do here). However, if you are playing pot limit Omaha 8 and flop the nut low without having any redraw for a high hand whatsoever, you must seriously think about folding here. If this was a limit game than you could probably get away with calling and not have to fear risking too many of your chips. But in PL, you can "cripple" your chip position if you are faced with an all in bet for your holding can not withstand geting counterfeited on the turn and/or river. Even if you were to get quatered and still were able to make a profit,you can't put yourself in jeapordy by calling a huge bet on the flop and now cross your fingers that the board stays clean for you. Good fold, and the correct choice IMHO. You should apply the 4 cards working well together rule even more so when playing pot limit because unless you are an extremely strong player who is able to release a hand that can easily cost you a ton of chips, you are simply beter off with a hand that will show much greater strength and potential. again, you made the right play considering this was a Pot Limit game. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: PL O/8 tournament hand, stdioh, 5. Jun 2003 08:24 | ||
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| Good post. | ||
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