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Server Time: 11/20/2009 10:49:38 PM PACIFIC |
 I took the plunge..., MozMan, 31. May 2003 14:54 | ||
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| ... and I sank like a rock. Well, it really wasn't all THAT bad; except for my last hand. Ok, so I promised to tell you how my first live NLHE tourney went: I held my own for about 45 minutes. I was getting almost all cheese, but had still managed to chip up a little bit. Even with that, I was probably 5th stack at my table when I that blood vessel in my brain burst. Looking back, I am actually quite proud of my play before I decided to act like a rank amateur. Anyway, somehow I let it get to me that I wasn't getting decent hole cards, and got frustrated. Then I get 66 in late MP (7th from the button); FINALLY a playable hand, if marginal; my first thought is call, and bail if the flop is scary and I have no set. But I hear this little voice in my head say, "This one isn't going anywhere... don't even call." I'm usually pretty good about listening to that voice... but it REALLY pissed me off! So instead I raised preflop to 200 (blinds were 50/100 at that point) and got 3 callers! Flop came scary, two overcards(QJ), one under(5). UTG bets out 200, I decide I'm gonna scare them all away and raise to 400. Button cold-calls and the others fold. An A comes on the turn, and (prepare yourself... this was the exact moment that the afore mention blood vessel burst) I go all-in. Button calls without hesitation. She had an ace in her hand (was playing AQ suited, and already had the underpair) and I blew 45 minutes of hard work in one bad hand. ugh... On the bright side, I went right to a 3/6 ring game and won back my buy-in. I can't wait for the next tourney, though... after my early play, I am thoroghly convinced that I can finish in the money; as long as I don't allow myself to freak out like that again. -Moz "There is no spoon." | ||
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| Re: I took the plunge..., Don Quixote, 1. Jun 2003 07:57 | ||
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| Come on in, the water's fine. That little voice is the voice of a 16-foot, hungry alligator waiting on the bottom for handouts :-) Moral to the story: Don't believe everything you hear. My point: Heck, I don't know either. Don Quixote on 31. May 2003 14:54 MozMan wrote: > ... and I sank like a rock. > > Well, it really wasn't all THAT bad; except for my last hand. > > Ok, so I promised to tell you how my first live NLHE tourney went: > > I held my own for about 45 minutes. I was getting almost all cheese, but had > still managed to chip up a little bit. Even with that, I was probably 5th stack > at my table when I that blood vessel in my brain burst. Looking back, I am > actually quite proud of my play before I decided to act like a rank amateur. > > Anyway, somehow I let it get to me that I wasn't getting decent hole cards, and > got frustrated. Then I get 66 in late MP (7th from the button); FINALLY a > playable hand, if marginal; my first thought is call, and bail if the flop is > scary and I have no set. But I hear this little voice in my head say, "This one > isn't going anywhere... don't even call." I'm usually pretty good about > listening to that voice... but it REALLY pissed me off! So instead I raised > preflop to 200 (blinds were 50/100 at that point) and got 3 callers! > > Flop came scary, two overcards(QJ), one under(5). UTG bets out 200, I decide > I'm gonna scare them all away and raise to 400. Button cold-calls and the others > fold. An A comes on the turn, and (prepare yourself... this was the exact moment > that the afore mention blood vessel burst) I go all-in. Button calls without > hesitation. She had an ace in her hand (was playing AQ suited, and already had > the underpair) and I blew 45 minutes of hard work in one bad hand. ugh... > > On the bright side, I went right to a 3/6 ring game and won back my buy-in. I > can't wait for the next tourney, though... after my early play, I am thoroghly > convinced that I can finish in the money; as long as I don't allow myself to > freak out like that again. > > -Moz > > "There is no spoon." | ||
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| Re: I took the plunge..., BigDMcGee, 1. Jun 2003 15:18 | ||
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| That reminds me of my second no limit hold 'em tourniment. I actually won the first one I ever played ( it was like a three or four table thing, not too big of deal) but It pumped up my ego pretty big. So the second touriment i was in, I doubled up and change early, and was feeling pretty good. I got dealt AK in late position, everyone folded around to me, I raise my typical three times the big blind pre flop, and got called by the BB. Flop comes queen rag rag, I make a pot sized bet ( this was early in the tourmiment, so it wasn't a whole bunch of money.) and the BB called.. blank on the turn, I checked, and he checked. River came a rag. BB checked. Now, I should have checked here, but some voice in my mind said " the only way you can win is if you go all in") Did I meantion the BB was the only guy at the table with a bigger chip count than me? So I pushed it all in.. He had Aq. I learned several valuable lessons from that experience, and have fought that urge to to make rediculous bluffs. Usually if some one calls, they are in there for a reason, it generally means strength, so unless you have some read on them that they are weak, or have a draw, you shouldn't try and push them off a hand. Second, the all in over bet is generally one of the most reliable tells of weakness in no limit tourniments. All in bets are much more suspcious than any other kind of bet. Generally, if people are going to fold, they will fold to a much smaller bet. There is some intermediate bet size, betweeen huge over bets, and small, weak bluff bets that I've found work well, and don't risk my whole stack if i've read the person wrong. If anything, pushing all in makes people more likely to call, not less. I've used that to my advantage as well, making huge bets on flops when I have an over pair, or two pair, or a set.. even flushes. Because the bet just looks so wierd, making a huge over bet on a flop. Everyone knows that if you flop a big hand, you want to trap people in by making small bets!! So they'll call you with marginal hands they would have called those small bets with, 'cause they just knew you were bluffing. I rarely ever risk all my chips on a pure bluff, unless I get a really, really good read, and have a good reason to think they will fold, and the pot is really big to begin with ( but not too big.. because if you're all in isn't more than at least half the pot size, it isn't really scary). Anyway, I think that's one of the most common mistakes people make in No limit hold 'em, is they don't bet their strong hands strong enough. So many people by into the classic " act weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak" and check the nuts, or make really small bets, hoping to trap people in. If I flop a big hand, a marginal hand, or a hand I have a big draw for, and want to semi bluff, I always bet the pot, and sometimes I all in. If people are going to call your small bets, they will also call your huge ones. I always am thankful when I have a marginal hand, or even a semi strong hand, but someone is coming out, making small bets at the pot that i'm calling, then they show me some huge hand that they didn't bet their hand stronger... | ||
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| Re: I took the plunge..., BigDMcGee, 1. Jun 2003 15:19 | ||
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| Sorry, I got to rambling a bit on that last post.. LOL | ||
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| Re: I took the plunge..., MozMan, 2. Jun 2003 10:55 | ||
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| No worries! It was a good post. Good to know I'm nto the only one... ;) -Moz "There is no spoon." | ||
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| Re: I took the plunge..., Swagman, 2. Jun 2003 03:12 | ||
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| Did'nt rant is was a fun story. I won the first tournment i was in to. A 1k quarenteed Hold'em limit. Incidently came in 2nd on my second tourny. Another small 1k quarenteed NL hold'em. Placed miserably on my third tourney came in 2nd again on my forth tourney. All of them were small 20 to 40 people at most affairs. I have never been in the money in consecutive tournies again since that rush of beginner's luck. But unfortunately it was enuff to get my hooked. | ||
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| Re: I took the plunge..., stdioh, 2. Jun 2003 11:08 | ||
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| There are a number of things you did wrong in this hand. Lets pick them apart. First off, small pairs play well against a large field or heads up. Thus minimum raises are terrible with them. In general, minimum raises are terrible period. If the blinds are getting scary and you're desperate to chip up then you can make a big raise with your 66 and hope to steal the blinds, but still have something to play if you get called. If you're not desperate you can fold or you can call, depending on a number of factors. If you call you want lots of people in the hand and you should stick to "no set, no bet" unless something peculiar happens. If the flop is 225 for instance you can make a pot sized bet at it. Now when you make the minimum raise and get callers, there are a lot of hands there that beat you. Want to steal it? Not with a king and queen on the board, but no ace. Somebody probably hit the king...there are a lot of hands that people will (not necessarilly rightly) cold call a minimum raise with that inlcude kings. If you want to fold players who hold queens, then you need to scare them. Thus if you want to bluff at this pot you need to bet a large bet...pot sized bets are good here. If you're not willing to get called on your bluff and abandon the hand when you're raised all in, then just muck your cards on the flop.This is a stone bluff and anybody who will call you or raise you has you drawing to a 6. If you get flat called, do *not* bluff the turn, period. So when you hung around and played on the turn you were setting yourself up for disaster. There's a QKA on the board and you showed strength before the ace hit. Thus you're not likely to get credit for an ace and anybody with an ace will probably call you. Anybody with a king and a good kicker also has a gutshot now. You could be looking at a made straight or a very likely 2 pair (which you faced). Run away. I've played in a number of tournaments where I've gone far by playing really well and having good luck only to blink everything away on a retarded play. You can't do it. It ruins your chances. Good tournament players just don't make mistakes like that ever. | ||
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| Re: I took the plunge..., MozMan, 2. Jun 2003 11:20 | ||
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| Absolutely... I have been over that hand 100 times in my head, and I come to the same conclusions. I'm actually pretty mad at myself, because I knew how to play it, and I knew while it was happening that I was doing it all wrong, but I seemed helpless to stop myself! It was really weird. What I really wanted to do was call before the flop and use the no set no bet rule. If I had done that, the damage would have been minimal, and I would probably have seen several more hours of play.. the blinds were not scary yet, and I was not really in terrible shape, chip-wise. Anyway, no excuses... I played it very badly because I let myself get emotional all of a sudden. It wasn't any I can rightly belly-ache about, I didn't sucked out or anything; I actually got what I deserved. The good part is the lesson in it... you can bet I'll never do THAT again! LOL! -Moz "There is no spoon." | ||
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