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Server Time: 11/21/2008 12:17:32 PM PACIFIC |
 Question for the pros & semi-pros, kaleb2000, 27. May 2003 14:18 | ||
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| I've posted a couple seven card stud questions and have yet another for stdioh and anyone else with comments. Here it is: I've been tracking my beats lately and have noticed that I have alot from low card 2 pairs. Usually it goes something like this: I have [K7] 2 and bring in - fold if I'm not the low card. Next card I get a 7. Knowing that a pair of 7's is almost worthless I check. Everyone else does to -If someone else called and no other 7's were out and no-one looked to dangerous I might call as well- otherwise I would fold if called on (definitely lost a lot of hands early when I was newer by drawing for the three of a kind). I now have a pair of 7's and get another card. Now I have a [k7]272 (2 pair). Usually I will see this hand through looking for the fh usually I loose as well (alot). I've noticed I'll draw for the 7 or 2 (even if one or two are out -usually fold if 3 are accounted for) and someone will hit their str8 or flush or 2pr AKQorJ and I'll keep calling. Is the correct thing to do here fold? I think that my play on these hands is what keeps me from really excelling. | ||
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| Re: Question for the pros & semi-pros, Wren, 27. May 2003 14:35 | ||
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| I'm by no means a stud expert, but I think this situation (2 small pair on 5th street) is akin to having something like AA on a board of 69T w/ flush draw in hold'em. You're probably best right now, but a lot of cards can come to kill your hand, so you'd be more than happy to take it down immediately with a bet. In your example, since no one has shown strength so far, you've gotta bet this hand on 5th street and try to get out hands like smallish single pairs and gutshot straights. You might very well take it down right here. However, don't passively check and call. Bet, and if you get raised, reevaluate things - who is raising, what are they showing, etc, but you'll probably be best off folding here. If you get one or two calls, reevaluate things on 6th street by what cards fall for your opponents. If they look like blanks, go ahead and bet again. You really want to be in a position where you're in control, and you know where you're at. If you have reliable information that an opponent's on a made hand or two larger pair, FOLD. Unless the pot is laying you huge odds to draw to your tight. It is very unlikely that you will have odds, however. If one or two of your outs are dead, your odds are hugely worse. Just fold your hand. It's that simple. The average winning hand on an 8-handed Stud table tends to be somewhere between Aces up and medium trips. Remember that, and it shouldn't be too hard to fold two small pair in the face of action. | ||
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| Re: Question for the pros & semi-pros, Big_Slick, 27. May 2003 21:36 | ||
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| These are the type of hands that eat away at your chips and your sanity. You need to fold this hand and not look back. Will it win pots? Sure. But you'll lose a lot more than you'll win with a weak hand like this one. If someone else called and no other 7's were out and no-one looked to dangerous I might call as well. You need to remember the beauty in 7-stud... it is amazingly deceptive. Just when it looks like no one has anything, that's when players show down their flushes, straights, trips and full houses. Great 7-stud players have these qualities: - Great patience (surprise - surprise) - An excellent memory (professional players can tell you what cards have been folded at the end of a hand.) - A solid understanding of odds They also have the intangible qualities like being able to read people, etc. The good news is you can learn patience, work on your memory and learn odds. 7-stud doesn't rely on luck as much as hold 'em does. The better players will come out ahead a lot more in this game. This is just a taste.. probably nothing you didn't already know... hope it helps though. | ||
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| Re: Question for the pros & semi-pros, kaleb2000, 28. May 2003 00:09 | ||
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| Wren and Slick, Thanks for the information. I've always played these hands too much and hearing other peoples opinions on them heps alot. Take care!!! | ||
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| Re: Question for the pros & semi-pros, BigDMcGee, 28. May 2003 00:44 | ||
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| Hey, easy on the jab at hold 'em!!!!! That being said, two small pair is a terrible hand in stud in a multiway pot. Like was said before, you are more than likely have the best hand, and you should bet to try and chase people out, and win right there, but, if you have two or more hands drawing at your for the fourth and fifth street, you are in deep trouble. Your outs (four) to making a full house are the same as gettng a gut shot, 11 to one, that is if all your cards are live. Since there was so little action in the hand, the pot is laying very poor odds on that. if you are playing two or more people, they have to have overpair, or an excellent flush or straight draw ( unless they are super fish) when you bet, if you're not beat already. So don't get married to this hand. Bet on fith, fold to raises, and proably slam the breaks on if anyone calls on 6th.. if anyone has an open pair of 6th, fold fold fold. pretty much I would check on 6th, and pay off any freuquent bluffer on the river. But what I wouldn't do with this hand is call, tring to fill up, because it's a terrible draw, that you're not getting the proper outs two.. I hate this kind of hand if i'm in the lead, I certainly wouldn't chase with it.... My two cents | ||
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| Re: Question for the pros & semi-pros, kaleb2000, 28. May 2003 06:35 | ||
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| Good comments. --Thanks | ||
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| Re: Question for the pros & semi-pros, stdioh, 29. May 2003 09:04 | ||
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| Having a small 2 pair is really not a wonderful thing in a loose stud game. The problem is that you have a lot of chasers and a lot of players with one lousy pair. Somebody usually hits a higher 2 pair than you by sheer dumb luck - just like getting fished out on in hold'em. You really need to view your small 2 pair as a drawing hand looking to fill up and you really want it to be live. In this case, you're also drawing to a king and kings up has a decent chance of winning - especially if you've seen the aces spread around, folded, etc. It is one of those hands that you hope will win it unimproved, but it certainly something that you don't expect will win. Now if you're in a really tight game, it is very possible for this hand to win it and you should be betting it agressively, but if the game is loose then you aren't going to be able to fold anybody off their junk and the schooling effect will take its toll. So I would say this is a hand akin to top pair marginal kicker in holdem. If you're good right now then you might win, but if a bunch of people are fishing along you're likely to be beat. And you might already be beat. | ||
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