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Server Time: 11/20/2009 9:12:20 PM PACIFIC |
 First Trip to Vegas, Sam Anshilevich, 27. May 2003 07:58 | ||
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| Do you have any good suggestions for me, I plan to play probably about a total of about 20-30 hours. I know the basics and have played on-line and have done ok. I tend to be more nervous playing live but I am trying to be more calm. | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, RICK K, 27. May 2003 17:03 | ||
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| If your playing Texas Hold'em, Go to the Flamingo. There is a $4-$8 game w/ no Kill. Many players are "new" there, and it would be a good place to get your feet wet. . | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, Jav, 27. May 2003 17:15 | ||
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| Is that $4/$8, or 1-4/4-8 or however that's called. I haven't played much in Vegas, but I remember the lower stakes tables having a different betting structure than the normal limit games in Arizona and California.... | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, 4 POKER, 27. May 2003 17:18 | ||
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| I agree with you. Don't play at the Mirage or the Bellagio if you feel anyway uncomfortable or nervous about playing in a live poker room. These rooms are beautiful but are also filled with many pro's and you may find this to be a little overwhelming at first. The smaller cardrooms will tend to have a more layed back attitude and the atmposphere may not seem as threatening to you. Try them out first, get comfortable with playing in a live poker room and than, what I would do is just check out the other poker rooms as well. They really are posh rooms and should not go unseen, especially if this is your first trip to Vegas. And even if you chose not to play poker in the Bellagio or the Mirage, at least you will have had the opportunity of visisting two of the most fantastic/beautiful casino's in the country. Good luck to you out there. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, Big_Slick, 27. May 2003 19:12 | ||
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| what is kill? | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, BigDMcGee, 28. May 2003 00:12 | ||
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| Generally, if you win two pots in a row, the second over a certain pot amount, you get the kill button, the limits double, a 48 becomes a 8 16, and you post a large blind on the kill button, no matter where in play you are | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, Andrew Wells, 28. May 2003 04:55 | ||
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| It works differently at some card rooms. Such as a kill is automatically in effect the next hand if someone scoops a pot of a defined amount. Most places the next hand is a kill when someone wins two pots in a row. This may or may not exclude blind steals or hands with no flop. Usually if the blinds are chopped, this does not count as a hand. In that case the previous winner can still take the next pot and put the kill in effect on the subsequent hand. When there is a kill in play, the blinds remain the same as they would at the normal limit. The player who won two pots in a row now posts a live small bet on a kill button. If the game is 5-10 full kill, then there's a $2 small blind, $5 big blind, and a $10 kill blind posted. If the player with the kill button is in a natural blind position he only posts the amount of the kill. The important general adjustments are first that you would prefer not to have to post the kill, as this is deferred winnings from your last hand. You don't mind playing in a kill hand, just rather not have to post it. So obviously you tighten up a little for one hand after winning a pot. Second, because many players are not real comfortable with the increased stakes, you play a little more aggressive when the kill is out there. Particularly when you act after the kill blind, and this player has elected to check his option. If you have the kill blind in late position and everyone folds to you, it is an automatic raise with any two cards. This is the same concept as if you posted a late position big blind, but now the natural blinds have worse odds to call. So in general it is easier to steal when you have the kill. This carries over into middle position when you have the kill as well. Raise with more marginal holdings in this spot, but only if it looks like the players behind you are not comfortable with the higher stakes. Reraising to isolate preflop works easier when the kill is in effect, but often the player who posts the kill will psychologically take this as a challenge and defend anyway. So often you are playing against one decent hand, and a blind hand that is in better position. Raising in front of the player on the kill should still be done when you have a solid hand you would raise with anyway. Just avoid even playing some marginal hands in front of the kill like AJ, KQ, QJs, or 99. There are subtle adjustments after the flop, but by and large they involve simply playing bet or get out when you might ordinarily decide otherwise. | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, shorn, 28. May 2003 05:36 | ||
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| Great post on kill strategy Andrew. | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, Big_Slick, 28. May 2003 06:21 | ||
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| This may be another stupid question... but what is the purpose of a kill? My first impression would label it as silly and a penalty to players who win. | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, shorn, 28. May 2003 06:56 | ||
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| It creates action at the table. It also potentially increases the rake for the house as the pots are bigger due to the limit increase. I actually like playing in a LLHE game with a kill ofr precisely the points that Andrew mentions...many at the table will be less comfortable with the higher limit, so a good player can take advantage of that uneasiness and potentially win a few extra bets that they wouldn't have (say, lowering your steal requiriements a bit). | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, MozMan, 28. May 2003 08:22 | ||
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| If you are the killer, I find that the kill button is a very valuable tool to winn extra pots that you might not normally win as often. At my casino, when the kill is in effect, the killer must post a live blind (so if the game is 3/6 and I'm the killer, I have to post a $6 blind) and he gets to check or raise AFTER the entire table has seen action. I frequently raise the kill with even marginal holdings, and I will ALWAYS raise it if the entire table is in or if there are only one or two other players in. Here's my rationale: if the entire table is already in for $6, raising the kill always knocks out at least 2 players, but never more than 4... so that gets $30 more in the pot while reducing the competition somewhat. This is very rare, I have only been able to use this once that I can remember. The end result, even those that stay in are now afraid of me, and usually check to me on the flop, where I bet and win another big pot right there. If there are only one or two other players, I raise the kill and 90% of the time steal the pot right there. If I'm called, a bet or raise on the flop will often take take a slightly larger pot... If I'm re-raised, I'm probably screwed (if my hand is marginal) but I will call it and see what happens on the flop... but that doesn't happen often; usually someone who would be willing to re-raise a kill pre-flop will raise it before it gets to me anyway. I don't think anyone has done that to me yet. -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, MozMan, 28. May 2003 08:23 | ||
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| If you are the killer, I find that the kill button is a very valuable tool to winn extra pots that you might not normally win as often. At my casino, when the kill is in effect, the killer must post a live blind (so if the game is 3/6 and I'm the killer, I have to post a $6 blind) and he gets to check or raise AFTER the entire table has seen action. I frequently raise the kill with even marginal holdings, and I will ALWAYS raise it if the entire table is in or if there are only one or two other players in. Here's my rationale: if the entire table is already in for $6, raising the kill always knocks out at least 2 players, but never more than 4... so that gets $30 more in the pot while reducing the competition somewhat. This is very rare, I have only been able to use this once that I can remember. The end result, even those that stay in are now afraid of me, and usually check to me on the flop, where I bet and win another big pot right there. If there are only one or two other players, I raise the kill and 90% of the time steal the pot right there. If I'm called, a bet or raise on the flop will often take take a slightly larger pot... If I'm re-raised, I'm probably screwed (if my hand is marginal) but I will call it and see what happens on the flop... but that doesn't happen often; usually someone who would be willing to re-raise a kill pre-flop will raise it before it gets to me anyway. I don't think anyone has done that to me yet. -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, Andrew Wells, 28. May 2003 18:47 | ||
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| It appeals to the action player, someone you want in your game. It lets players gradually get used to playing for higher stakes. So someone from the 5-10 kill is more likely to want to go and play in your regular 10-20 game. It gives you some better opportunities to get healthy if you find yourself stuck early in a session. It rewards rushes faster. It lets you play for larger pots with the same rake as the regular limit. It is one of the few times when a straddle may be correct with the right type of players. You read that right, straddle! Yes I know every book out there will tell you a straddle is a sucker play, but this would be best left for a new thread. Suffice it to say there are "name" players out there who are experimenting with it when they have the kill UTG. I also had some serious correspondance with Bob Ciaffone many years ago about kill straddles, and was convincing enough that he said he had since tried it too. Mason and David had an opportunity to consider if this was flawed thinking, but chose not to comment. I think Melissa Hayden also does this, but I don't know first hand. The floor at the Mohegan Sun allowed me to do this for about a year, and then eventually made a rule to prohibit it. Only myself and one other pro were actively pursuing this tactic with the kill UTG when it was banned. When Ajing is on the floor at Ameristar K.C. it plays, when Bill is on the floor it does not. | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, Big_Slick, 28. May 2003 22:26 | ||
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| Andrew, What's a straddle? | ||
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| Re: First Trip to Vegas, Andrew Wells, 29. May 2003 10:51 | ||
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| A straddle is a raise UTG before you get your cards. You have the option to raise again preflop after the big blind acts. Usually you see this from someone who wants to gamble, and kick up the action at an otherwise tight table. It is considered a negative EV play under ordinary conditions. The appropriate response against a straddle is to three bet anything you would have raised with. | ||
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