|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 11/20/2009 6:09:45 PM PACIFIC |
 Two tournament hands, Wren, 26. May 2003 12:04 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I haven't posted one of my own tournament hands for awhile, likely because I've become quite disillusioned with tournaments as of late(and poker in general, but that's a different story). Last live tournament I played, I managed to get a large sum of money in preflop with AA vs both AT and TT, flop KJ8 rainbow, had AT push his very doggie hand in against me and then river his Q. I haven't moneyed in 9 straight sit n gos, and only placed in 5 out of my last 25. But I'm not here to bitch, really. :O) I'm oscillating between wanting to scream "UB IS RIGGED DON'T PLAY THERE THE BAD PLAYERS ALWAYS WIN ITS ON CNN TRUST ME ITS RIGGED!!!!" and fearing that something's become bad with my tournament game. Perhaps y'all can help me decide. Two key hands from the latest tournament: (1) Blinds 75-150, 7 of us left, I'm in very poor shape on the cutoff with 640. After posting his blind, BB has only 170 left. SB is a pretty big stack (just over 2000) and has been playing tight. The button is about as small as I am, and is playing very tight. It folds to me and I am holding A8o. I know that if I go all-in, the button and SB will fold without good cards (A-big or pair), and that the BB will call will virtually anything. I like my chances and push in. Button, SB fold and BB calls with Q2d. He makes a flush and wins. Thoughts? (2) About 10 hands later, I've managed to increase my stack back to just over 1K. Blinds still 75-150, I pick up KK in the SB. BB is all-in, winner of hand (1) goes all-in for 185, fairly passive, loose player with about T2000 cold-calls. I'd rather take my KK up against 2 than 3 people, and I can use the dead money from the cold-caller, so I push in, figuring I might even get a call from him if he holds a hand like AQ or JJ (which I wouldn't mind so much). He calls instantly and shows down AA. Was pushing in bad here? I think I'm having trouble objectively analyzing some of these hands because I've been having such poor results, and my poker-esteem has taken a nose dive. I'm just afraid that it's become a vicious circle and the worse I do, the worse I play, etc. etc. Any comments/criticisms welcome. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Big_Slick, 26. May 2003 12:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Wren, Maybe you should try a few limit tourneys if they offer them. They will help control the bad beats and that luck factor that the bad players thrive on in HLHE tourneys. It's been my experience that often, the better players survive to the end in the limit tourneys. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Wren, 26. May 2003 12:26 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I would try that, except UB only offers NL for its point sit n gos (and I don't have any real $$ in my account right now, and don't plan on putting more in at least for awhile). In the past, though, I've had better success with NL tournaments. Meh. :-/ | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, MozMan, 26. May 2003 14:02 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Actually, they have limit $5 and $20 S'N'Gs... the problem with them is there is usually some psycho who THOUGHT it was no limit and is pissed when he realizes he's stuck there so he plays really crazy and tends to put the whole table on a tilt... -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, stdioh, 27. May 2003 09:26 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yeah...seems like every limit tourney I've played there, somebody has say about 20 hands in, "Holy crap! This is limit!!! *****!" ... these are usually the people who only make minimum raises in the first place though, so you wonder. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Tim C, 26. May 2003 18:07 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Wren, I play alot of 2 table NL to. on pokerstars and since Jan. have had 2 streaks where I could not win. One was 9 tos. and the next one was 10 tos. long. But the good news is it does turn around. I think its just the normal flow of good and bad cards and luck. Take a break , and play your best game. If you play without confidence you will be beating yourself. Been there done that, see you at pokerstars . good luck tcraiseit. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Wren, 27. May 2003 10:22 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Good points...thanks for the thoughts. I haven't played on Stars in awhile, but I've been finding myself interested in Stud and Omaha lately, so I might sit in on one of their High Seas freerolls for practise. Seeya around! | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Wren - Side note, TKarrde, 27. May 2003 07:42 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I suggested to UB that they have ring games for points? Is that silly or a good idea? I think it would make the points worth more to players. TK P.S. What is your UB name. Only place I play. Would like to sit down at a Sit and Go with you sometime! | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Wren - Side note, stdioh, 27. May 2003 09:28 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It would be nice, but I think that UB would worry about too many players ammassing a large number of points. If you could play for 10 hours for free and then blast out your 10 points to real players and they just accumulated and accumulated, then there would probably be a lot of people going for the $10,000 in cash UB points reward...and that could get costly. I'd like to see ring games for points too, but I think that they don't have them there for a reason. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Wren - Side note, Wren, 27. May 2003 10:09 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| TKarrde, I'd be interested in playing ring games for points, but as stdio pointed out, it probably wouldn't fly. I tried to get UB to merely transfer a few of my points to another player, and they wouldn't do that. There's no harm in e-mailing them and see if it would be something they would remotely consider. BTW my handle on there is (drumroll please) Wren. Creative, huh? I actually saw you at a low limit O8 table a couple weeks back and said hi. Didn't get a response, so I guess you either had chat off or didn't see it. You can find me at the sit n gos most often during the day, but sometimes I'll play in the evenings as well. Have you downloaded UltimateBuddy? I haven't yet, but word is it's a pretty nifty piece of software, so I'll probably check it out soon. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Wren - Side note, TKarrde, 27. May 2003 10:22 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Ultimate Buddy? Haven't heard of it. Tell me more. Tell me more. Didn't mean to snub you. I usually only get a couple hours an evening for maybe 3 or 4 evenings a week. (Which never seems like enough.) And so I am usually playing 3 tables which doesn't give me much time to look at the chat. Plus that and I'm usually paying bills or cleaning my desk. I've actually started taking a liking for Omaha8. Especially Pot Limit. Have done well except for the bone headed play that I lost $38 on when I had the second nut low. I knew better. I even thought about it hard. Not sure what made me hit the call button. Yes, I know, calling with the second nut. Shame shame. So you couldn't transfer points? I was going to try that for some friends. Had some buddies set up accounts but too chicken-s%#t to fund them over the internet. So I transferred money to their account. Obviously UB was more than happy to do that to get a couple more players at the tables. Was going to try and transfer points to try and get them in some tournaments or Sit n Gos. I'll try and say hi next time on see you. Does Stdioh play there too? What is his userid? TK | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Wren - Side note, Wren, 27. May 2003 11:08 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| http://www.ultimatebuddy.com That's cool - I figured you were multitasking :O) Yeah, the small potlimit O8 games are great. They can get a little tedious if you're not getting any starting cards though, since omaha plays slower than hold'em does. However, it's always exciting to see huge pots built (especially if you're the one building them with the nut-nut ;) ) I'd like to get some money back in there and play those games again. (This is getting not-quite-pokery, isn't it?) Yup, stdioh plays on there too, as stdioh. You can find him playing small buy-in sit n gos and some low limit stud/O8 (hmm...am I supposed to be giving this info away, stdio? ;) ) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Wren - Side note, MozMan, 27. May 2003 11:09 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hey Wren- I found stdioh there last night, as stdioh... (that punk kicked my A** =) ) you can find me there most nights too, as MozMan. -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Wren - Side note, Wren, 27. May 2003 11:12 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yeah I've seen you there before. I don't think I've played a sit n go with you there recently, but we probably played at the same hold'em ring game table back in the day. He kicked your ass, huh? Hee...whereabouts? Heads up sit n go? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Wren - Side note, MozMan, 27. May 2003 12:07 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It was a sit-n-go, with about 6 players left. I was holding my own, but struggling a little... my deals were pretty salty to that point. The hand right before, I went heads-up with another player who went all-in and out-drew me on the river to cut me to about 500 chips. The blinds were getting big, so I was despirate. When I caught a pair of Qs on the flop, I went all in to try to chip-up and stdioh called me with Ax (he had a lot of chips, and I think he was trying to help me double-up knowing I was the favorite), but he caught an Ace on the turn and knocked me out. He was playing really good poker, tho and deserved to money in that one. I went right into another game, so I never did get back to see how he fared... -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Wren - Side note, stdioh, 27. May 2003 13:51 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Dude! I had pocket aces. You said "nice catch" and I didn't know what you meant. I didn't catch anything. You did play the tourney well, but I wasn't holding Ax...not at all. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Who else plays at UB?, TKarrde, 27. May 2003 12:10 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I'll have to pay attention and look for Wren, stdioh (Studio H as I refer to him in my head as stdioh makes NO SENSE hehe), and MozMan. Wren, what does Ultimate Buddy do? Does it help you find people at UB? At first I was excited when you mentioned it thinking it might be Poker Tracker for UB. TK | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Who else plays at UB?, MozMan, 27. May 2003 12:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| >>>(Studio H as I refer to him in my head as stdioh makes NO SENSE hehe)<<< That's funny... I always jsut think of him as Stud... as in the game... always just assumed the first part (Std) was for Stud Poker... and I always just ignored the rest. -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Who else plays at UB?, JunglingS, 28. May 2003 10:52 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I play at UB under the name RealityCzech. BTW, stdio.h is the C standard i/o interface header. If that isn't where he takes it from, it's been a heck of a coincidence. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, stdioh, 27. May 2003 09:25 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I find that limit tourneys are much crapshootier than NL tourneys. In a fishy limit game you get the worst kind of schooling going on so it is impossible to control a table. Because your massive starting hands get cracked so much, it becomes a game of playing a lot of drawing hands and trying to get lucky before your stack goes down too much. I'll play the odd limit tournament, but I think that they are the sort of game where having a great volume of terrible players reduces it to Bingo, whereas playing a NL tourney with a large number of bad players still comes with bad beats, but most bad players won't chase with *horrid* pot odds facing pots sized bets. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, MozMan, 26. May 2003 12:19 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| >>>I think I'm having trouble objectively analyzing some of these hands because I've been having such poor results, and my poker-esteem has taken a nose dive. <<< Funny, I have been experiencing and feeling exactly the same way (hence my post about changing limits... these experiences led me to try doing that fo rhte change of pace)... I probably would have handled both of those hands exactly the same way... but that really doesn't say much, as I'm not terribly confident in my play right now... In any case, when it comes to people making freak-draws (your first hand) to beat you, there is very little you can do about it. If you have created pot-odds that make their calls bad calls, that is really the only weapon you have. If they make the wrong decision and get lucky, there's nothing you can do. I think this is what is leading me toward higher limits; the idea of playing with people who understand that stuff and won't draw an inside straight wiht negative pot odds. -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Wren, 26. May 2003 12:31 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It's funny though - when I'm running bad, I really do start to EXPECT the freak draws to pan out for my opponents. For instance, the A8 vs Q2 hand. "They" say that you shouldn't really count suitedness as an important factor when you're heads up, but it seems I lose to flushes an uncanny number of times when either I, or my opponent, is all-in preflop in a heads up pot. In the Q2 hand, the flop came innocently enough - KK8 or something like that, with one diamond. Then as soon as a diamond fell on the turn, I got all pissed off and KNEW he was going to backdoor a flush. And then, of course, I swore loudly on the river :O) I know - emotions are bad in poker, but thankfully I'm usually able to curb mine until _after_ I've made a decision :O) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Wren, 26. May 2003 13:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Whew!! Finally won a sit n go. Feels like a huge weight's been lifted off my shoulders :O) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Easy E, 26. May 2003 19:39 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| "likely because I've become quite disillusioned with tournaments as of late(and poker in general, but that's a different story). " and then this post.... sounds as if you're letting your emotional fortunes affect you a little too much? If you want to vent about the initial statement (especially the "poker in general" part) but offline, send ezeriver@hotmail.com your diatribes.... As to your hand play- I would have called the 170 with the Q2suited (decent hand, when I don't have even the BB covered for later), and I would have gone in with KK in the second hand as well. Don't sweat it so much. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Wren, 27. May 2003 10:20 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks Easy...I know I have a problem with maintaining confidence and a positive outlook when I'm running bad. It's something that I need to work on, and I'm hoping it will begin to manage itself with time (as I, hopefully, continue to book longterm winning results). | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| been there, done that, Easy E, 27. May 2003 12:08 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| If I've learned one thing from poker, it's dealing (or trying to, anyway ;) with my emotional swings.... helps me in real life (hurts me, also, but that's a long post) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: been there, done that, Wren, 27. May 2003 12:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I hear ya. Sometimes I think it would really help if I wasn't a woman. I'd like to believe I'm ruled by my head, but these silly "emotion" things always get in the way :O) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: been there, done that, MozMan, 27. May 2003 12:43 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Contrary to popular belief, you ladies don't corner the market on emotions! ;-) I have had to leave tables before because I knew I couldn't control my emotions. One of the things I like abou tplaying online is that I can shout obscenities at the computer and none of my opponents can hear me. {8-0 -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: been there, done that, Wren, 27. May 2003 12:54 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yeah, but our emotions manifest in different ways. You boys put your fists through your monitors, and we burst into tears and wail "Whyyyyyy does the world HATE me so much???!" :O) It's more the IRRATIONAL emotions that come with being a woman that I hate. Feeling like I'm gonna cry for no damn hell good reason. But, alas, this is not only "Not Quite Poker", it's also "Not Poker At All", so I digress :O) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: been there, done that AGAIN, Easy E, 27. May 2003 22:24 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| ;) :0 :( | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Andrew Wells, 26. May 2003 18:36 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Both those situations seem to me to play best with all-in moves just as you did. I think you only need a tourney where things break your way to regain some confidence. These are not difficult spots to handle. That you are posting them looking for alternative play suggests that you are meerly allowing some doubt to creep into your game. Continue to make solid decisions like these and you only need a positive result or two as reinforcement. Everyone runs badly, 10 or more consecutive non-money finishes is fairly ordinary. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Wren, 27. May 2003 10:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks for the thoughts, Andrew. I often have to wrestle with doubt creeping into my game. Looking at the statistics I've compiled over the last couple years (since I started playing "serious" poker) all evidence points to me being a winning player, but the "low poker esteem" still manages to rear its ugly head when I'm running really bad. From what I've gathered, you've been playing seriously for at least 7 or 8 years. How long did it take you to be able to take loooong losing stretches in a completely neutral, unemotional manner? I'm starting to get a little pissed at myself for letting these bad streaks get to me. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Andrew Wells, 27. May 2003 15:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I don't remember the last time I tilted. More likely it's subtle, and I just don't notice. I've had my share of sickening bad runs, but it wasn't until I read an essay by Mason Malmuth a long time ago that I truly accepted the bad with the good. I've always known that if bad players didn't win sometimes, that there would eventually be no games, but it was still frustrating. It's been 2-1/2 years now full time, about 1-1/2 years semi-pro, and at least 8 years as a weekend warrior in raked games. Before that were weekly home games, that spawned four pros. I have actually been playing poker since I was three years old when my dad taught me draw. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, shorn, 27. May 2003 06:50 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Wren- I think you played both hands perfectly. You got your $$ in on the first hand with the best of it and he sucked out on you. If you were to ask yourself before the board came out "Do I want him to call with Q2", what would the answer have been? Yes...every day and twice on Sunday, that's what. The second hand is a tough one, but no one had shown you that KK was behind and I think your thought process was perfect. You just happened to run into the big hand at the wrong time. To make yourself feel better (other than your tourny win...congrats!), just look at some of the suck outs that occurred in the WSOP this year...Kings full losing to quads on the river; Phil Ivey losing with trip 9's to trip Q's on the river. Those kind of losses show me that the only thing you can control is your decision with the information you are given. The rest of the cards just fall regardless. So, keep your chin up! | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Wren, 27. May 2003 10:13 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks Shorn. Good group of supportive people we have here. If I posted this on RGP, I'd either get no responses, or perhaps one or two telling me to suck it up or go whine someplace else. :O) Yeah, the beats in the WSOP were horrendous. I think the worst was Chip Jett holding KK on a board of K52, his opponent with 55, chips in on flop and another 5 on the river....ouch! | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, stdioh, 27. May 2003 09:23 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| In that live game, I was the TT and I folded it preflop to your reraise after Carswell called it. So only T500 came out of me. Nonetheless, it was a terrible horrible beat. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, Wren, 27. May 2003 10:10 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| No you didn't. You saw the flop too. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Two tournament hands, stdioh, 27. May 2003 13:53 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hmmm...you might be right...it was a while ago and your memory is better than mine. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|