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Server Time: 11/20/2009 4:01:25 PM PACIFIC |
 Question about a hand..., MozMan, 26. May 2003 11:45 | ||
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| ok, the end result of this hand was very good, but I don't see monsters like this often, and don't have the experience to know if I handled it well. Any feedback would be appreciated: I was playing a sit/go and it was down to two players, vying for 1st and 2nd place. Having watched the other player the whole game, I knew him to be a very solid, tight and agressive player... but I had also seen him get a little tricky on occasion to mix it up. I knew he was dangerous, and had a lot of respect for him. He had the chip lead with about 6000 to my 4000. I was BB (600) and he was small (300). I was dealt 7d8d, and he called, so I checked to see the flop for free. The came 5d,6d and an overcard (I think it was a Jc). He checked the flop, so I did too. Then the turn comes 9d, to fill my straugh-flush (this is when I fell off the chair). He comes out betting with 600, so I raised to 1200. Then he re-raised to 2400... that's when I finally figured out that he was holding an A-high flush (He had ATd). At this point, I went all-in hoping he would take it as a bluff and call, or simply not see the str8-flush potential. Sure enuf he did call, and I won the hand to put him on the serious defensive. So, was there anything I could have done better? When he re-raised, he gave me a second opportunity to go all-in, but should I have done that in response to his first bet? I didn't because I was afraid of scaring him off, and I really wanted him to call. Lemme know what you think. -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., Big_Slick, 26. May 2003 12:10 | ||
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| I like the way you played the hand. The only thing I have to add is this... Don't ever worry about a player pegging you for a straight flush. It happens so rarely that no one except the most paranoid players will ever suspect you have it. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., MozMan, 26. May 2003 12:21 | ||
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| Good point. I hadn't really thought of it that way... I would probably never put someone on a monster like that for the simple reason that I never see them. Now that I think of it, if the roles were reversed, I would probably have thought he had a straight or lower flush and would have been surprised when the straight flush came out. -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., MozMan, 26. May 2003 19:45 | ||
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| >>>I would probably have thought he had a straight or lower flush and would have been surprised when the straight flush came out.<<< Sorry, meant to say "I would probably NOT have thought..." -Moz "Life is a dream. Live your dream, because we all wake up eventually." | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., Andrew Wells, 26. May 2003 18:49 | ||
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| You have a big enough draw to bet the flop. The small blind is not the button here? Just keep raising on the turn, the only thing you don't want to do is leave yourself with some chips to bet the river. Anytime someone looks committed to their hand heads-up and you hold the nuts, it's pointless to slow down. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., Bond18, 26. May 2003 19:01 | ||
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| As far as putting someone on straight flush when you have A high flush i PROMISE you (as its happened to me twice now in 3 months online) that the last thing your thinking about is the incredibly slight possibility that your opponent has SF. It looks like you played the hand perfectly to me. -Bond | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., Andrew Wells, 26. May 2003 19:37 | ||
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| I think MozMan is probably thinking about those times when this opponent has something like top pair mediocre kicker, and whether playing fast will just cause him to fold. I still say get the money in there, as you're right about a straight flush being something one doesn't really begin to believe is out there until several raises later. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., shorn, 27. May 2003 06:39 | ||
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| That is true with 569 on the board. People may suspect a str8 flush more if 567 of the same suit were on the board because of the two ways that you can now have it. Plus, when you see a board of 567, what is the first thing that comes to mind? Str8...not so with 569. I like the way you plyed the hand. You got the maximum out of it which is all you can asl for. In fact, if you had gone all in after his first raise, then he might have suspected something more fishy. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., BigDMcGee, 27. May 2003 06:57 | ||
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| I agree with andrew. With a Straight flush draw on the flop, you have to bet at it. If you're not betting in these situations, you're not being aggressive enough in heads up play. It's been my experience in these sit and go's that it's the aggressive play that wins.. the blinds get so big, so quickly, that often it doesn't matter so much what your hand is, as how agressive your play. I would have bet on that flop, and if I was raised, would have gone all in. You have to play that kind of hand more aggressively... once you have the striagh flush.. the hand plays it's self.. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., stdioh, 27. May 2003 09:21 | ||
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| Indeed, I've played a lot of NL heads up freeze outs and the vast majority of the UB players in these things at the low limits fall into the category of not being agressive enough. Barring random card mishaps, players who go heads up without enough agression have the bejesus pummelled out of them. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., stdioh, 27. May 2003 09:17 | ||
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| I would have bet the flop. When you are up/down to the straight flush, you are a small favourite to win the hand, but it is much better to just take the money now that worry about getting there. The pot is small, so I would make a minimum bet into it to see where I am. If he raised back I would call and see a turn. This also adds deception when you make your hand. Now when you hit your flush, your straight, or your straight flush (and you were lucky here that you didn't make a vanilla flush) you can bet out and get a good chance of having him call because he believes that you were on a made hand on the flop and thus aren't there for a flush yet. That said, when he bet the flush at you and you raised, that is a fine play. Making the raise a small one here is also appropriate. If he was duffing around you still want him to call with a small piece of it and you have no fear of a reraise if he senses weakness from your minimum raise. Now when he comes back at you like that, the all-in is necessary. For one thing, you don't want him getting to see the river without being all in because it might convince him to fold to your river bet if he's on an unimproved set or something like that. Really, you have to lay into him here and put him on the hand he is representing - the ace high flush. Especially since your straight flush uses 2 cards from your hand and it is an eternal lock since a bigger straight flush is not possible for any board. So yeah. I think you played this hand just fine, but I think it would have been a slightly better idea to make a bet on the flop with those cards and build a pot for yourself. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., Mark, 27. May 2003 10:50 | ||
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| on 27. May 2003 09:17 stdioh wrote: > I would have bet the flop. When you are up/down to the straight flush, you are a > small favourite to win the hand, but it is much better to just take the money now > that worry about getting there. The pot is small, so I would make a minimum bet into > it to see where I am. I would have bet the flop here too, but it would be a pot size bet for a couple of reasons. 1. To win the hand out right. at this point all you have is a drawing hand so taking the pot down right away is great. 2. A small bet won't give you that much info. many players will simply call a small bet no matter what they have. they might call with a single overcard, or second pair, or may slow play a monster till the turn hoping they can trap you. 3. checking is a bad play, you let him see the turn for free. 4) By making a pot size bet, you have a much better idea of what your opponent has. If he calls he is probably on top pair or a solid draw (like A high flush). If he reraises he probably has top set or top two pair. Then you have a much better idea of what he has and can play the turn accordingly (for example if the flush J had fallen you can check expecting an Ace high flush to bet big) and most important 5.) when you make your hand, it is very well hidden and will probably bust your oppoent. Once you have a str8 flush, your only worry is getting as much money as possible. But you won't get many, so you need to know what your opponent has when you only make a str8 or baby flush mark | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., stdioh, 27. May 2003 13:55 | ||
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| I agree with you that a pot sized bet would be appropriate in a cash game, but in a tourney I don't like to throw around that much money when I am only a slight favourite unless I or my opponent is desperate. So I think that in this case, the size of your bet depends on the size of your stack and your opponent's stack. Notwithstanding *some* bet is correct. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., Mark, 27. May 2003 18:39 | ||
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| on 27. May 2003 13:55 stdioh wrote: > I agree with you that a pot sized bet would be appropriate in a cash game, but in a tourney I > don't like to throw around that much money when I am only a slight favourite unless I or my > opponent is desperate. So I think that in this case, the size of your bet depends on the size > of your stack and your opponent's stack. Notwithstanding *some* bet is correct. I don't see the point in making a small bet. The only benefit is that it saves chips, but in that case why bother to bet at all. The big stack can easily afford to call a small bet with any marginal holding, therefore, a small bet will not acheive much. I just don't see much benefit in making small bets in no limit, ever (well almost never). If your not making your opponents worry about their stack, there is not much point to the bet. If i was worried about my stack that much, i would probably just check. By making a minimum or small bet you are normally going to take the worst of it. Very few opponent will fold, only the ones with no hope of improving. Marginal holdings will call and try to draw out on you. Good hands will reraise you. And some will bluff at you with a big bet reading your small bet for weakness. you put yourself in a calling (passive)situation, not a great place to be in no limit. mark | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., stdioh, 29. May 2003 08:57 | ||
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| No your small bet is for value. You actually want your opponent to call the small bet as you are a favourite at the moment. If you made a large bet then you would be wanting to move him off his hand, but when he doesn't leave then you are married to the hand and won't want to let it go if the turn doesn't hit you ... which is a problem because you lose your odds pretty quickly when the turn is a brick. | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., Schuster, 27. May 2003 11:12 | ||
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| Definately agree about betting the flop, and I'm surprised that the other player didn't bet the flop as well. The "nut" flush with an ace that might be good is a very semibluffable hand. Lee | ||
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| Re: Question about a hand..., tron, 27. May 2003 17:51 | ||
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| would u lay down a ACe high flush? u would have gotten all his chips regardless. | ||
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