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Server Time: 11/20/2009 9:10:12 PM PACIFIC |
 How would you play this hand?, Banning, 25. May 2003 23:55 | ||
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| how would you attempt to play this hand. Pocket aces. from early position. raised preflop. There are 4 callers. flop comes A49 all of hearts. I bet out with 3 of a kind because I didn't want anybody out there getting a free draw to a flush. I ended up getting raised and I called, then i bet the turn when it came a blank thinking that he was making a play for a free draw. I was wrong and got raised back again...I already knew i had lost but called him down cuz i felt like being a stupid calling station.He had the flush on the flop. But what is the best play? Just fold the pocket aces against the raise? that doesn't seem very smart. He could be making a play for a free card. Pocket Aces from early position is kinda crazy against a coordinated flop like 3 of a suit. Of course I do have a draw for a full house. But... any input welcome thanks. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this hand?, mongi, 26. May 2003 01:03 | ||
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| I wouldn't consider you a calling station for calling the turn raise. You had ten outs to beat him on the river. I agree you should bet out on the flop. When he raised you you have to figure he as a small flush or possibly has a King of that suite. Its highly unlikely he is raising with an ace since you have two and one is on the board. I think checking and calling the rest of the way is the way to play. If he has a flush then you are the one drawing, why put in extra bets in this situation. If he is on a draw, you are not going to get him out by betting. If he has two pair or less,let him bet your hand for you, he is a longshot to outdraw you in this situation so giving him a free card isn't so bad. In a heads up situation when you are playing against someone other than a rock, you'll have to pay off this hand. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this hand?, Andrew Wells, 26. May 2003 01:50 | ||
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| I would have also bet the turn. This player could have a set of nines, or a big heart with or without the case ace. By no means does the raise on the flop make it certain that you are up against the flush. Your bet on the turn may also give you a slim chance of outplaying this opponent on the river. Suppose he doesn't have the nut flush, many otherwise good players will make the minor mistake of going slow with something like KhQh. So it's possible that he's playing maybe JhTh fast and correctly. If he doesn't have either the Kh or Qh he may believe you have a hand like AK or AQ with the redraw. Against the right type of player (someone capable of making a "good" laydown) you may be able to bet the river if a fourth heart comes small and outplay him. I'm assuming he was in last position on the flop. If not, it's much more likely he does have the nut or second nut flush and this would be a wasted bet. If a blank falls on the river and he bets when you check, it's going to be safe enough to fold here except against a consistently tricky player. Those I'll pay off because of no smooth call on the flop, and the possibility of set over set or the case ace. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this hand?, psuasskicker, 26. May 2003 08:59 | ||
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| This is a hand that I think you'd have to have a very good knowledge of your opponent in order to determine what the "correct" play is. I'll go off a few points here and there... First, I don't think your call on the turn was incorrect at all. If it's $5/$10 poker, there's $90 in the pot with $10 to call and you have 10 outs. You undoubtedly have pot odds to make this call, with a check and fold at the end if your hand doesn't hit. You could check and call at the end in the hopes that the opponent was semi-bluffing the whole way, but I don't see that as likely, so check and fold is probably better if you don't make your hand. Second, if you know your opponent well, you must figure out what he's doing with his post-flop raise. If he's the kind of player that's looking to take control of the action with a small flush, then a check on the turn is undoubtedly correct. If he's the kind of person that likes to semi-bluff while building a big pot if he wins (i.e. he's betting the Kh), then it's correct to bet on the turn, call any raise, and check and call at the end if a fourth heart doesn't hit. If you know he's a maniac and will try to muscle out people by representing he has a big flush when he has nothing or something small in this hand (say two pair), you should either reraise after the flop or go for a check raise on the turn. Third is when you don't really know your opponent, in which case the decision is very unclear. Really, you have to try to get inside your opponent's head and figure out what they think you're thinking. If you're playing against someone very unsophisticated, you should probably make them for the flush and check and call the turn (with 7:1 pot odds, you're still getting correct calling pot odds on the turn). If you're playing with someone who tries lots of trickery, he could easily be trying for the free card. The real issue is, with your bet on that flop, what is he likely raising with? There's really only two possibilities. One is he either has the flush made, in which case it's likely a small flush (J or worse), or has the Kh and is drawing to the flush and looking for the free card. Both require a different response on the turn. But the real issue is that you're on the draw yourself if you're up against a real hand. Malmuth and Sklansky suggest that you check your hands with outs, and bet your hands with no outs. This is for you essentially to know the correct play. If you have outs, i.e. you've got top set against a possible flush, you'd rather give the free card on the turn if he takes it than bet and wind up getting raised. If you're against a four flush, you're both getting about equal chances to hit your hands (you actually have more outs in this situation than the four flush), so checking doesn't cost you much if any value. But if you bet and are against a made flush who raises, it now costs you a double bet to draw to your hand to the end. If you had no outs (i.e. AK), a bet and fold would then be correct. Overall, I'd probably check the turn without a very good knowledge of my opponent, but either play could be okay. Your call at the end wasn't stupid. If there was a mistake anywhere, it was on your bet on the turn, but I think that is too close a call to consider the bet "incorrect". Chris | ||
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| Re: How would you play this hand?, stdioh, 26. May 2003 09:16 | ||
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| You have to bet your hand to prevent free cards. When you get raised and call the flop this is fine. You have plenty of outs to tighten up and punish the flush. Now when you bet out on the turn this is acceptable agression and you have to call the raise because you still have 10 outs to tighten up. The river is probably the time to release this hand when you are bet at, but this is really tough to do. When you fold on the river to be shown 2 pair or a worse set it really hurts. The pot is big enough there that when the river brings a blank you might make a crying call with your top set. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this hand?, shorn, 27. May 2003 06:28 | ||
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| I agree with stdioh. I would have continued to bet the turn to avoid giving a single heart a free shot and then called the raise because I had the odds to do so. Unless the river brought a 4th heart or a card that would allow 1 card to show me a str8, it would be tough to fold top set. | ||
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