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Server Time: 11/20/2009 10:07:35 PM PACIFIC |
 Proposition Players, Guru, 22. May 2003 15:37 | ||
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| What exactly is meant by a "proposition" player. I've always assumed it meant pro player, but I've never really known for sure. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, flintsword, 22. May 2003 15:56 | ||
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| A proposition player is a player that is either paid by the house to play with his own money or play with a house bankroll. Since they are generally playing with their own money, they tend to rocks. Prop players are a vital resource for cardroom managers that need to make sure that there are games rolling at all hours in a busy cardroom. Generally speaking, prop players are misunderstood by the general playing public as being shills for the house, and this is rarely the case. I would like any experts or former prop players to go in some detail here, ... from experience, ... to educate us all on the life of a prop player. Thanks in advance! flintsword | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, MozMan, 22. May 2003 16:04 | ||
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| An example of how prop players might be employed: At my casino, it is viewed as an employee benefit. Poker dealers often sit-in on breaks or between shifts and are allowed to stay on the clock (provided they wear a jacket or sweater over their unform shirts and do not drink alcoholic beverages). They are also allowed to play instead of having to clock-out if the card room is slow and they are not needed as dealers... (under the same rules) that way they are easily accessible if it picks up again and more tables need to be started. -Moz | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, igotskillz, 22. May 2003 16:15 | ||
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| one casino i go to pays me 10 an hour to open a table as a "prop player" this lasts for 1-2 hours . i play with my money . i am sure there are many variations. good luck | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, stdioh, 23. May 2003 08:40 | ||
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| A prop player is a player that the casino pays to bring action to games. For instance, if there is a 100-200 game ready and 7 players who want to play, the casino will want to start raking that table, but none of the 7 want to sit and play shorthanded. So they might throw 5 prop players on the table, attracting the real players. Often props will play with their own rolls, but not have to pay session fee/rake. Then as the table gets full the house can pull the prop players off and move them elsewhere. The good thing about being a prop is that you can really move up your hourly rate by a lot. The bad thing is that there is nolonger such thing as table selection. The house can stick you in any game they want so there could be a very juicy 60-120 next to you and you're stuck in a hard as hell 100-200 because that is where you are told to be. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, gary ford, 22. May 2003 19:18 | ||
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| on 22. May 2003 15:37 Guru wrote: > What exactly is meant by a "proposition" player. I've always assumed it meant > pro player, but I've never really known for sure. In California a proposition player or "prop" is pad an hourly wage and plays his own money. Generally he is to help start games, hold games together, and give up his/her seat whenever a new player comes in. Another version is a 50/50 player who is partnered with the house. The y are usually very passive, just taking up a seat. Props, like shills must be identified if a customer asks. It appears to me this is a relic of the old days in smaller rooms that need help starting games. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, stdioh, 23. May 2003 08:42 | ||
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| I would also imagine that they are a relic of the days when the house would put in a ringer to clean out some fish at a table. Why am I thinking of the no limit triple draw lowball game in Tunica where Binion was rolling Doyle and Scotty. Blinds were 5,000 10,000. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, noiseboy, 23. May 2003 10:52 | ||
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| I just applied for a job as a prop, so I can speak to this. At my local card club, they will pay you $18.50/hr to play at whatever table they send you to. You still play with your own money and you pay time. Around $7 of the amount they pay you is time reimbursement, so you don't pay any taxes on that amount. Of course, you get to keep whatever winnings (or absorb any losses) that happen at the tables. They pay you more for the higher limit games, less for the lower limit games. Overall, it doesn't sound like that bad a gig, except that if I get the job, I have to learn lowball and Pan. Hold'em and Omaha I have confidence in. Probably need to work on my Stud. It's a forty hour a week thing, and they basically just use you to get games started and keep them going when people leave. They make more money if games don't break, so it's a symbiotic relationship beneficial to both parties. At least it would get out of my office job! | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, stdioh, 23. May 2003 11:34 | ||
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| Learning to play lowball and beome at least marginally profitable at it shouldn't be tough for any old poker player. It is just a game of odds and reads. I've never heard of pan before - what is this? | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, noiseboy, 23. May 2003 12:02 | ||
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| It's an ancient form of Rummy that is played for money. Basically, certain melds are worth certain amounts of money, then if you win the hand, EVERYONE pays you again. Also, you have to meld something right away, and can't put it in your hand, so the hand doesn't change except by subtraction of melding. Also, it is played with four or five decks with the 8, 9 and T's stripped. I'm not sure exactly why. It looks fun, but I haven't actually played. I'm a little intimidated by lowball just because the lowest limit is $20 limit, and I think that's pretty high to start out. However, in N. Cal. the bets don't double after the draw, like in So. Cal, so it could be worse. I think I would spend 80% of my time playing HE and Omaha, I just don't want to lose it all back at the games I'm not familiar with. I think that the only positions they have are graveyard, so I'm not sure I'll even take it if they offer. Sounds fun though, maybe. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, stdioh, 26. May 2003 07:55 | ||
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| Sounds like the kind of game that has a long learning curve and is very unpokery. I would be worried about learning it well enough. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, Game 4 Fun, 23. May 2003 14:26 | ||
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| Where is the position that you are applying for located? Remember the only reason you can't play only AA in holdem is b/c of the rake and the blinds. If your getting paid to play, you can learn the other games from the top hands down. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, Jav, 23. May 2003 15:03 | ||
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| That's a good point. Though if you are at a $30/$60 game or higher, and you're only getting paid $20/hr it won't make up for the blinds and the rake (entirely). But it probably will allow you to tighten up on your starting hands and let you learn the game with less risk. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, noiseboy, 23. May 2003 15:41 | ||
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| It's in Oakland, CA. The position I'm applying is for playing 3-6 and 6-12 hold'em, 4-8 Omaha with a 1/2 kill to 6-12. I'd also have to play $2 pan, $20 limit lowball and 4-8 stud. They have higher limit games which they of course pay you more to play, but usually the Prop players who have been there the longest are the ones who move to the higher limits. Yeah, I think you could supplement the paycheck pretty well just playing tight, solid poker, and beat the game a lot easier without the time charges to beat. I tend to be pretty aggressive, so I might have bigger swings than some, but I will probably make a lot more than a rock in the long term. | ||
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| Re: Proposition Players, Andrew Wells, 23. May 2003 16:09 | ||
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| The tough thing is you are usually in the worst game going. You have to be a savvy shorthanded player as well. You also lose some expected action later if you showdown a bluff. This makes it a harder job than just playing pro. Maybe the extra money per hour makes up for these shortfalls, but I doubt I would want to find out. It sounds like easy money when you are already a winning player, but I've heard of some props that had to quit after several months. Zero game selection is probably the killer. I hope you make it though. | ||
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