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Server Time: 8/21/2008 1:37:05 PM PACIFIC |
 Hellmuth's Book, mroban, 22. May 2003 11:22 | ||
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| Hey guys, just finished reading Hellmuth's new book and was curious about everyone's thoughts, primarily about his 10 Top Hand theory and his Majority Play hands. I agree with the ranking order but have been having some problems (on line) with his aggressive theory on hands like 8-8 and 7-7. What does everyone think? | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, stdioh, 22. May 2003 11:52 | ||
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| I find that playing a medium pair agressively is something that is really for advanced players who have good control over the table and are playing against other advanced players. I wouldn't try it at a fishy table and I don't want to sit at a non-fishy table. I think that there are strategies with these cards that might work well at a 100-200 ring game in vegas or atlantic city, but that are overkill for my local games. Generally speaking, my advice with 88 or 77 for anybody who doesn't know what to do with them is to play them much like 22 and 33. Try and hit a set and be willing to give them up if they don't hit. | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, Risky Business, 22. May 2003 11:56 | ||
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| Specifically to the 8-8 and 7-7 theory...... It works better on someone that knows you're following a certain path of starting cards. Until someone knows that you only play high or mediocre pairs, your raise with 7-7 won't scare them......you might as well have small suited connectors.............but neither will your raise with A-A, and that's where you win. It's been well established that it's hard as hell to scare away on-line players with all the jackals and lions out there. Sometimes you won't want to scare them away, so suck it up if you can and either stick to it, or dump it. (Changing gears notwithstanding) What Phil did with those chapters is make everyone consider that he might have a set when any of those card 7 or better flops, an ingenious ploy in writing the book. | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, mroban, 22. May 2003 14:22 | ||
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| excellent point about Phil. He kind of "protects himself" by including the 7-7/8-8 theory and it is ingeneous if that is his intention. But for me, I will stick with my usual strategy of making it 2 bets with 10-10 or better (including big slick) and just calling smaller pairs in the hopes of building the pot and dumping my hand on the flop if I miss the set or the flop is bad. Additionally, I think beginners too can learn the concept if including big suited connectors near the button or in the blinds against a lot of limpers. Pot odds are very good at that point. They play like the smaller pairs (dump them if you miss the flop). What is so advanced about that? But in general I agree - the book is terrific. | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, Risky Business, 22. May 2003 14:35 | ||
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| Do you enjoy Scotch with your poker? on 22. May 2003 14:22 mroban wrote: > excellent point about Phil. He kind of "protects himself" by including the 7-7/8-8 theory > and it is ingeneous if that is his intention. > > But for me, I will stick with my usual strategy of making it 2 bets with 10-10 or better > (including big slick) and just calling smaller pairs in the hopes of building the pot and > dumping my hand on the flop if I miss the set or the flop is bad. > > Additionally, I think beginners too can learn the concept if including big suited > connectors near the button or in the blinds against a lot of limpers. Pot odds are very > good at that point. They play like the smaller pairs (dump them if you miss the flop). > What is so advanced about that? > > But in general I agree - the book is terrific. > | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, mroban, 22. May 2003 14:40 | ||
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| what does that mean?? | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, Risky Business, 22. May 2003 15:01 | ||
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| Apparently a play on words, one might mistake your handle for Mr. Oban, a very nice libation. on 22. May 2003 14:40 mroban wrote: > what does that mean?? | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, mroban, 22. May 2003 15:05 | ||
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| thats pretty funny...i actually order it often just because of the similarity to my name...but i thought your comment reflected that my strategy sounded like the play of a drunken fish...:) | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, Big_Slick, 22. May 2003 14:01 | ||
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| I think it is a great book. You have to take into consideration that Phil wrote this book inline with his own style of play. So when you read about how he plays 77 or 88, realize that this works for him and may not work for you at the local club. If I can learn just one thing from any book, I find it worth the cover price. That said, I was pleasantly surprised with the price of this book. At $15.95, it is a bargain compared to a lot of books that hit the shelves at $29.99 or more. | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, trwebb26, 22. May 2003 15:11 | ||
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| I like the book overall. I think somebody on UPF said it best... He wrote based on his experience - and his experience is to play top notch players. For this reason - a lot of his theory goes out the window when playing not so great players (see post - Hellmuth at WSOP). I was particularly critical of the section that talked about small and medium pairs (2's thru 8's) I thought the best aspect of the book was his betting strategies... some of which I hadn't thought of. He gives good examples here. I agree with noiseboy - well worth the cover price, but beware - over 150 pages of this 350 page book are omaha, 7-card stud, and razz. While the book is mostly hold em' - I expected the content to be a little more one-sided. | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, noiseboy, 22. May 2003 15:24 | ||
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| I think you are thinking of someone else, as I don't have Hellmuth's book yet. Or perhaps I may have made a comment that in general, poker books will pay for themselves. Oh wait, I think I remember someone asking about Hellmuth's book and Cloutier's book in the same post, and I said something like, "you can't go wrong with books written by tournament champs". I can't really remember. As much as Hellmuth's antics annoy me, I'm probably going to have to buy his book, it seems like a good price, and there are a lot of aggressive players in CA tournaments. It would be good to get in that mindset, so I know how to deal with those people. | ||
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| Re: Hellmuth's Book, Risky Business, 22. May 2003 15:24 | ||
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| It just seems like the standard has been set NOT to publish a book on only one game. (As if to avoid saying, "I'm not good enough at another game, so I won't include it.") What those geniuses should be doing is publishing one book per game, screwing the consumer into building a library, but they don't do that for some reason. on 22. May 2003 15:11 trwebb26 wrote: > I like the book overall. I think somebody on UPF said it best... He wrote based on > his experience - and his experience is to play top notch players. For this reason - > a lot of his theory goes out the window when playing not so great players (see post - > Hellmuth at WSOP). I was particularly critical of the section that talked about > small and medium pairs (2's thru 8's) > I thought the best aspect of the book was his betting strategies... some of which I > hadn't thought of. He gives good examples here. > I agree with noiseboy - well worth the cover price, but beware - over 150 pages of > this 350 page book are omaha, 7-card stud, and razz. While the book is mostly hold > em' - I expected the content to be a little more one-sided. | ||
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