|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 11/20/2009 9:28:15 PM PACIFIC |
 NL Tourny Hand, shorn, 21. May 2003 05:33 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| OK, so I am trying my hand at the multi-table NL tourny's at Party. This hand came up last night. I am slightly better than an average stack (T1600) with around 100 of the original 163 players left. I get QQ in the BB. Blinds are 50/100. UTG raises all in for T500. Fold to cutoff who calls all-in for T400. Table Chip leader in SB (T4500) says, "OK" on chat board and calls. T500 to me. My thought process is that it is 60/40 that I am behind at this point, AND I may be risking my whole stack calling against the table chip leader. However, with two of the players all-in (and forced to do so), I figure that I am up against at least 1 AK or AQ, (maybe 2), so the likelihood of being agains AA of KK is diminshed and players may be holding each other's outs. I decide to reluctantly call. Flop comes K63 rainbow. SB bets the pot and I muck quickly. Rest of the board comes blanks and he takes it down showing AK. UTS shows AQs and cutoff shows JJ. Should I have folded pre-flop? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, chasepoker, 21. May 2003 05:39 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| To be honest i would have probably played the same way as you did. I guess you could fold pre flop but i think that calling the flop and folding to overcards is fair enough. 7 High's Chasepoker | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, Wren, 21. May 2003 07:10 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I think you played the hand well. Your thought process about the counterfeited outs made sense. Furthermore, an online player is usually pretty honest when he says something like "ok" in the chat window and then calls a big bet or raise; it usually means he/she has a good hand but not a great hand, and he/she's willing to take a flop with it. (This "tell" is almost as accurate as when a player types "tilttt" when he/she picks up a big hand and then raises. But not quite :O) Due to these factors, it would have been sensible to assume that you could have played your QQ pretty hard on the flop if it came all undercards. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, Huck, 21. May 2003 07:40 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I like your analysis about the counterfeited cards, too. I might not have considered that, but certainly would have been wary of Aces and Kings. It sounds like you knew you were taking a slight gamble here, but that you'd have the best of it if no overcards fell. So I think you played it correctly, too. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, shorn, 21. May 2003 08:02 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks for all of your input chase, Wren, and Huck. I certainly didn't put the Chip Leader on AA or KK because he would have gotten me out of there to acquire the T1000 from the "all-in-ers". So, I guessed that he was on high cards for certain. Interestingly, after the hand was over, another player asked me if I would have called in the same spot with AK instead of QQ. I answered no because then the chances of counterfeiting were extremely high. This guy went on to berate me on how terrible a player he thought I was for that answer which i thought was strange. However, I busted out 55th and he was still in it with 13 to go (he was the chip leader in fact), so maybe he was right. Thoughts on that? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, Big_Slick, 21. May 2003 09:39 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| With 2 people going all-in against the chip leader you should have folded your Q's. Here's my thoughts... 1) Although your pockets queens are strong, there are 3 other people seeing the flop. You need to pick your battles better than this. With that many people, luck starts to take over. Flushes are made, straights are hit, sets are realized. You might just flat-out lose to a better hand. 2) If it was only costing you 100 or 200 to see the flop, then I'd recommend a bet. But in this case, you are throwing in 1/3 of your chips for one bet. I think this is too risky and poor money management. 3) You're not even half way through the tourney yet. There will better opportunities than this. Smile and fold.. sit back and enjoy the show. 4) Your position here sucks since you are the first to act. 5) If you fold here, you are in a win-win situation. If the chip leader wins, the tourney has lost 2 more people. If the chip leader loses, he just pissed away 20% of his chips. 6) You get to see 3 opponents cards for free. I love free information. Whether the chip leader wins or loses, you get to see his hole cards. The person who scares me the most here is the first player who goes all-in UNG. The chip leader probably has a marginal hand but figures he can afford to lose a bet or two (which is a horrible strategy but you see it all the time with chip leaders. What's even worse is that they always seem to win these hands.) Anyways, that's my 2 cents. It should give to some things to think about. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, shorn, 21. May 2003 09:47 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks Big. I like your analysis and I thought about some of these things while I was contemplating. In retrospect, I think it is a very close call but thinking more about it with three opponents I am starting to think that I should have folded. In effect, I lost 1/3 of my stack hoping that an Ace or King wouldn't come on the flop (which it did). These are the situations that I have a lot of trouble with and your analysis is helpful. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, Big_Slick, 21. May 2003 10:20 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| You are welcome! I love hearing other players ideas. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, Mark, 21. May 2003 16:26 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I agree with Big_Slick here, mostly because i'v made the same type of plays in the past, and it usually doesn't turn out good. No limit hold'em is very situational. I would say that the situation and position are more important than your cards. You are spending 1/3 of your stack to see the flop in a situation where you are a slight favorite at best. And to make matters worse, if you do hit a good flop (with all under cards) you can't push everyone out of the hand, 2 players will get to keep drawing. You're spending T500 to try to hit 2 outs or to draw five blanks. I think that folding and waiting for a better situation is right. Also, you shouldn't be discussing your hands as the tournament is still play (if your still in it). You are giving away too much information for free. mark | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: NL Tourny Hand, shorn, 22. May 2003 05:03 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Mark- Great post and advice. Good point on the fact that I need five blanks (or a Q) because of the two all-in guys. I hadn't thought of it that way. You are also right about the information...I am showing my naivete at NL holdem tourny play! Thanks, Steve | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|