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Server Time: 11/20/2009 9:12:32 PM PACIFIC |
 How to use pot odds.., kaleb2000, 20. May 2003 14:50 | ||
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| Q1 I'm assuming you should only use the pot odds to decide to call or fold when you have a drawing hand and are resonably sure that drawing hand will win if it lands, correct? Q2 Do you use a similair method technique when you have a pair? I usually raise if I have a premium pair in seven card stud. Q3 When you are dealt a 3 str8 or 3 draw (2-10's) do you use pot odds to stay in considering the 4th card landing the str8 or flush? In other words, say you are dealt (2c 3c) 9c --No other c are out. Pot is 2.50 (.25 ante from each player). You check. Five people put in 1.00 making the pot 7.50. You have 7.5:1 pot odds and hand odds of 42:9 or around 5:1 . You call since you will land another c 1 out of 5 times. BUT... Just because you land it, doesn't mean you will win. You will have to recompute pot odds again in order to see if you should fold or call next hand. Next round dealt, looks like if you land the flush you'll win. You got another c so did one other guy making total number of c's exposed to be 5. So you start the bet and check (hoping for infinite odds), next guy calls 2 dollars, only one person calls making the pot 8.5 + 4 = 12.5 . 12.5:2 pot odds or around 6:1 . Hand odds are now: 36:7 or 6:1. What is the correct way to look at this problem? I'm sure you wouldn't fold since the overall odds of winning the hand with another 3 cards coming is around 40%. Am I taking a relatively simple concept and making it harder than it should. Computing pot odds make sense for the last card dealt to me but they seem irrelevent by then since if you have made it to the 6th street you are probably going all the way anyway. Using my example from above, what am I doing wrong? How should I look at this problem? Q4 What is an average percentage of times to see 4th street? My current is around 33%. Should it be more like 20-25? Help :0 !! Thanks! | ||
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| Re: How to use pot odds.., stdioh, 20. May 2003 16:30 | ||
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| > Q1 I'm assuming you should only use the pot odds to decide to call or fold when > you have a drawing hand and are resonably sure that drawing hand will win if it > lands, correct? That's more or less the gyst of it. You're thinking about your chance of winning the hand vs the amount in the pot and the amount you have to put up to see the next card. > Q2 Do you use a similair method technique when you have a pair? I usually > raise if I have a premium pair in seven card stud. Stud is a lot different from hold'em. In stud it is common to hold a pair of aces and draw to 2 pair against somebody that you are pretty sure has 2 pair made kings up. In hold'em this doesn't happen becasue any pair on board helps you and your opponent and to hit your kicker you have not nearly enough outs. In stud there is a lot to weigh in terms of how live your hand is as to whether your draw will get there. Likewise a poor two pair will have 4 or less outs to a tight, but you might be correct to chase it if it has 4 outs since a lot of the deck has been exposed so your 4 outs come from much fewer cards...all very much more fluid in stud than in hold'em, but yes...the principles of pot odds still apply, however you have to consider your opponent hitting his hand without you knowing that he has too...reads are much harder in stud. > Q3 When you are dealt a 3 str8 or 3 draw (2-10's) do you use pot odds to stay > in considering the 4th card landing the str8 or flush? In other words, say you > are dealt (2c 3c) 9c --No other c are out. Pot is 2.50 (.25 ante from each > player). You check. Five people put in 1.00 making the pot 7.50. You have > 7.5:1 pot odds and hand odds of 42:9 or around 5:1 . You call since you will > land another c 1 out of 5 times. BUT... Just because you land it, doesn't mean > you will win. You will have to recompute pot odds again in order to see if you > should fold or call next hand. Next round dealt, looks like if you land the > flush you'll win. You got another c so did one other guy making total number of > c's exposed to be 5. So you start the bet and check (hoping for infinite odds), > next guy calls 2 dollars, only one person calls making the pot 8.5 + 4 = 12.5 . > 12.5:2 pot odds or around 6:1 . Hand odds are now: 36:7 or 6:1. What is the > correct way to look at this problem? I'm sure you wouldn't fold since the > overall odds of winning the hand with another 3 cards coming is around 40%. Am > I taking a relatively simple concept and making it harder than it should. > Computing pot odds make sense for the last card dealt to me but they seem > irrelevent by then since if you have made it to the 6th street you are probably > going all the way anyway. Using my example from above, what am I doing wrong? > How should I look at this problem? You still use your odds of winning the hand. Don't think about your odds of making a draw...think about the odds of winning with 4 cards to come. For instance, let me address something I argued about at a home game with friends on the weekend. I had a 4-flush and was facing an opponent with an ace and king on board who was representing a pair of aces. Now, her chances of making a boat were slim as I had one of her aces back and a king had also died already. So I look at my chances of making the flush. There had been 11 cards exposed thus far and only one that I didn't get was a heart, so I had 8 outs to a flush with 37 cards unseen by me (I won't count the ace of nonhearts that I suspected her of having back). Pod odds dictate that I have a 52.8% chance of making my flush by the river. Let's say that I have a 52% chance of winning the hand, because it isn't impossible for her to fill up to beat me. Now if I make my flush on the very next card (over a 20% chance) I get to pound on her as she won't think I have a made hand yet and will want me to pay to draw and if I jam it with 4 cards there it will only convince her that I'm not drawing, but have a made hand. Now I have more than 50% heads up, so I'm putting in bets. Lets say that I only have a 3-flush on 3rd street and 7 nonflush cards have been seen. I've seen 10 cards total. So I have 10 outs with 42 unseen cards. I need to hit two hearts. Do the math and get your probability. Then see how much the pot is offering compared to the bet to you and if your odds tell you to, fold. If they tell you to, call. If you have enough players committed to the hand that you have better than 100/number of players percent chance of winning then raise. > Q4 What is an average percentage of times to see 4th street? My current is > around 33%. Should it be more like 20-25? That really depends on style and opponents, but for a novice player, tight is right...less is better. | ||
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| Re: How to use pot odds.., kaleb2000, 21. May 2003 08:16 | ||
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| Thanks for taking the time to respond. Your examples make sense! :) Regards... | ||
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