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Server Time: 11/20/2009 5:25:23 PM PACIFIC |
 Ideal Hand Statistics?, Amix1, 19. May 2003 11:47 | ||
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| Could anyone tell me please, in terms of percentages, what is considered the ideal statistics for hands played? For example I have received the following report from Poker Stars: 31 hands played and saw flop: - 3 times out of 5 while in small blind (60%) - 6 times out of 6 while in big blind (100%) - 11 times out of 20 in other positions (55%) - a total of 20 times out of 31 (64%) Pots won at showdown - 3 out of 8 (37%) Pots won without showdown - 0 Problem is, I do not know in which direction shall I aim to make adjustment in my play style? I sure would welcome all suggestions. Also, about what is considered the ideal statistics? Thanks Amix1 | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, shorn, 19. May 2003 11:57 | ||
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| on 19. May 2003 11:47 Amix1 wrote: > Could anyone tell me please, in terms of percentages, what is considered the > ideal statistics for hands played? For example I have received the following > report from Poker Stars: > 31 hands played and saw flop: > - 3 times out of 5 while in small blind (60%) > - 6 times out of 6 while in big blind (100%) > - 11 times out of 20 in other positions (55%) > - a total of 20 times out of 31 (64%) > > Pots won at showdown - 3 out of 8 (37%) > Pots won without showdown - 0 > > Problem is, I do not know in which direction shall I aim to make adjustment in > my play style? > I sure would welcome all suggestions. > Also, about what is considered the ideal statistics? > Thanks > Amix1 > Seeing the flop 64% of the time overall is way too much. However, since we are only looking at a sample of 31 hands, you can't be sure it isn't because you were just getting great cards. I look for my percentage to be between 20-30% total, with 30% being quite high. One other thing to point out is that your showdwon percentage is poor which probably means that you are holding on and calling with hands that you shouldn't. I want that percentage to at least be 65% if not higher whcih tells me that I am winning a large % of the pots in which I participate (ideally, it should be 70-80%). I guess that from this small sample, I would say you need to tighten up considerably and learn to fold hands like second pair when a straight or a flush is on the board. Good luck. Steve | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, Amix1, 19. May 2003 12:03 | ||
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| Thank you much, for your point of view. Very helpful. :-) Amix1 | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, Harold Pierce, Jr., 21. May 2003 12:29 | ||
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| The table is on p. 195 not 145. There is a new and expanded edition of this book, and it is available from Cardoza Publishing, P.O. Box 1500, Cooper Station, NY, NY 10276. (Ph. 718-743-5229). Check Amazon. I would like to buy this book, but since I live in Canada, it much too expensive. Until quite recently, the exchange rate has been about $1,5 CDN for $1 US, and in British Columbia, the combined provincial and federal retail sales tax is 14.5 %. At this high price, the local public library doesn't buy too many special topic books either. Although the exhange rate has dropped ot ca 1.33, Canada is still a travel bargain for US citiizens. | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, JunglingS, 19. May 2003 12:05 | ||
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| Look at your own statement -- "Problem is, I do not know in which direction shall I aim to make adjustment in my play style?" That is exactly one of the problems with this question. I play an aggressive game. I like to see cheap flops with stuff some other people consider absolute garbage, and pride myself with my post-flop play. Obviously I will have more folds on the flop, and fewer pre-flop than the typical "tight" player. This means that my "ideal" statistics are quite different from some other players. Relate the stats to the style of play you are developing -- that way you can see how close to that style you are actually playing. Also, you can see how your profits stack up vs. how close you play to the style you have chosen, and adjust accordingly. Also, you didn't see very many hands in that sampling. Keep track over a long period of time, and you will get a much better idea of what is happening. Also keep in mind that the texture of the table also makes a difference. Note that you saw the flop 100% of the time in the BB. Let's assume that is because this table rarely raises before the flop, so you were just getting free flops. What does this stat look like at a table where someone raises before the flop as a matter of course? See what I am saying? | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, Amix1, 19. May 2003 12:10 | ||
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| Very logical advise. Thanks. :-) | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, MozMan, 19. May 2003 12:30 | ||
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| There's very little to go on here, with so few hands over all... but it seems like you are seeing an awful lot of flops... nothing wrong with that if you have a great long-game (pardon the slip into golf-lingo), but it still seems a little high. Try to remember that hold-em is a slow-paced game. Don't be over-eager to play, sit back and relax and play only hands that you think you can play.... you get a free look at the flop almost every round on your big blind anyway. When something isn't going your way, don't be afraid to lay-down. | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, NiceFella, 19. May 2003 15:49 | ||
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| I've been collecting a lot of data about online play. Yes, I'm a spy and a data harvester. The most profitable low-limit online players (which, I must say, there are remarkably few of) are seeing less than 20% of all flops. Some will argue that this is TOO tight, but I think it corresponds well with how I play (yes, I'm profitable), my casual observations, and that's what the actual data about thousands of players is telling me. If you play only the very best hands (AA-88, AKs-ATs, AKo-AQo, and KQs) that makes just under 10% of all hands. Playing your big blind and occasionally limping in with a little less makes up the other 10%. NiceFella | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, ice, 19. May 2003 17:30 | ||
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| as said before, a lot of variables there... sounds like the game was pretty short handed if you got 6 BB, in 31 hands, so maybe that is why you were seeing more flops than usual. *********** ¡¢£ßøx | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, Harold Pierce, Jr., 19. May 2003 22:41 | ||
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| In "Winner's Guide to Texas Hold'dem Poker by Ken Warren, the table on page 145 shows the top 40 hands money-making hands based on a "recent computer analysis." Since there are 169 possible two-card starting hands, the potential for action is 40/169 x 100 = 23.7 %. The potential for action for any variation of poker is defined as ratio of the number of reasonable starting hands to the total number of starting hands and is expressed as a percentage. I created the potential for action (PFA) parameter so one can compare the many variation of poker and thus choose the variation that offers "the best action" for the time and money. The PFA can also be used to assess how tight or a loose a game or player is. In a ten handed game, for example, only 2 or 3 players should call the flop. If more than that consistently call the flop, then the game is loose because one or more players are calling the flop with starting hands that are not recommeded by experts. | ||
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| Re: Ideal Hand Statistics?, Amix1, 20. May 2003 20:10 | ||
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| Thank you for your most enlightening explanation. It is certainly a most logical line of thoughts I have came across and will remember it. Again, thanks for your valuable info. Regards, Amix1 | ||
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| Tex. Hold'em PFA Correction, Harold Pierce, Jr., 21. May 2003 22:29 | ||
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| The value for the PFA I posted for Texas Hold'em is incorrect. The correct value is 18.70 %. This error occurred because I didn't do the calculation correctly. The various hands in the Top 40 don't have the same number of combo's. A pair has 6 combos, two cards suited, 4 combos and two cards off-suit, 12 combos. The potential for action is just the probability, expressed as percentage, of receiving a reasonable and recommended starting hand on the deal. Mathematicallly, the potential for action is nothing special, but it sounds impressive and gets one's attention. NiceFella observed the most profitable players call the flop about 20 % of the time. This observed value thus confirms the results of the computer simulation. In a ten-handed game, only two palyers should see the flop. Put another way, you will on the average you have 1 playable hand every 5 hands. The actual odds are 4.35 to 1. Whether you actually play the hand will depend upon your position relative to the blinds, the betting acion and the value of the hand itself. | ||
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| Re: Tex. Hold'em PFA Correction, Amix1, 21. May 2003 23:33 | ||
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| Thanks for your input, great info. Regards, Amix1 | ||
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