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Server Time: 11/20/2009 5:49:43 PM PACIFIC |
 seven card stud strategy, kaleb2000, 16. May 2003 11:20 | ||
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| I have two questions concerning 7card stud strategy. Please critique my examples and let me know how I can improve. All replys are welcome. I consider myself to be fairly patient and more interested in getting a strong starting hand before I put money out. Better to loose my ante than 30 antes trying to force a nice hand. I do have a couple questions about the following 2 plays. They are the ones that usually get me into trouble. Straight: 1) We probably would all play a possible straight hand such as 8 9 10 or 5-6-7. After third street, I only continue if I have a four card straight 7 8 9 10 (will usually play this hand through). If I get a 6 in stead of the 7 making 6 8 9 10, I'll usually play one more but then get out before bets double if I don't get a 7 or J. Any onther cards after 3rd st. I'll fold unless flush is possible or I have a strong pair. Low pair: 1) If dealt a low pair such as (2 7) 2, I'll usually play until I see another 2 in the field or until someone pairs something higher on display. If I would nail another 7 early on- I'd probably raise and be aggressive to remove drawing hands and to get pot up with a chance for full house (even though it's weak). If I got the third 2 I would raise and reraise. In paricular is my low pair strategy to optomistic? I'm really hoping to nail another 2 and the odds seem small of getting it (even if there are no other 2's out). Even if I do, my 3 2's don't feel verry stroneg. I think these two plays usually kill me the most. Does any one else find these hard to play? Am I playing too tight or too loose? Thanks in advance! | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, noiseboy, 16. May 2003 11:40 | ||
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| Two things you need to realize, I'm not a stud expert, but I know that if you are playing a small pair starter, your kicker matters a LOT. I would want a live A or K to go with my pair of two's unless the game was short handed or something. The difference between pairing up you seven and making two small pair, and pairing up an to make AA's up or KK's up is enourmous. If anyone is showing strength with a face card as a door card, you are probably just chasing and should just dump the 22s. Similarly there is a great difference in straight draws between low cards and high cards, since you might miss the straight but still win by pairing something up. Something like TJQ is MUCH better than 789, especially if the cards are live. It also helps to have two of them suited, the idea being that you don't want to rely just on your straight draw. Ideally, you want to have your straight cards to be live and hopefully some of your pair cards too. Hope this helps. You should pick up a copy of Super System and read through the Stud section which is pretty good. | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, kaleb2000, 16. May 2003 12:16 | ||
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| So in the case of being dealt 7-8-9 all offsuit, would you dump it or conintue to 4th. If I understand you correctly, if someone shows strength you would not chase the low straight knowing the guy raising with a J showing probably has JJ. If you had K-Q-J (2 suited) would you probably continue even if faced against a possible premiium pair? Lately I've been playing a 789 straight or lower at least till 4th just to see if I can nail the 6 or 10. | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, noiseboy, 16. May 2003 12:36 | ||
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| Yep, I consider dumping the lower straights if somebody with a higher card is showing strength. If I have some live overcards, in addition to a live draw, I might chase, depending on how many other players are in the pot increasing the implied odds if I hit. Basically, you just need some good potential to get a better hand than the leader, preferably with more than one way to win. You might take one card off, if it's not too expensive, with a marginal straight draw, but you have to be very careful and sometimes it might just be better to dump. Again, I'm not an expert at stud, you might see what 4Poker has to say, as I think he's played a lot more stud than me. | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, noiseboy, 16. May 2003 12:44 | ||
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| BTW, yes to both questions on how I would play those hands, you want some live overcards to go with your straight draw if you are going to take on a premium pair. If I'm against a premium pair and all I have is the low three straight, I'm a big dog because I have to pair up twice if the straight doesn't hit, and he has a good chance of making at least JJ's up. If nobody raises the bring in, it might be OK to take off a card. In the case of small pairs, I pretty much have to have the overcard kicker to play against a possible/probably pair of JJ's, especially if he bets and somebody calls, indicating that they have something worth playing against the JJ's. You at least have the three outs to hit AA's or KK's up. | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, kaleb2000, 16. May 2003 15:14 | ||
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| Thanks for the comments :) | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, Mark, 17. May 2003 15:11 | ||
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| > Straight: > 1) We probably would all play a possible straight hand such as 8 9 10 or > 5-6-7. After third street, I only continue if I have a four card straight 7 8 9 > 10 (will usually play this hand through). If I get a 6 in stead of the 7 > making 6 8 9 10, I'll usually play one more but then get out before bets double > if I don't get a 7 or J. Any onther cards after 3rd st. I'll fold unless flush > is possible or I have a strong pair. I would play a low straight only if no one raises. I would play and open ended high straight for one raise (generally), but would need to have a 2 flush. If you are gapped, (eg. 346), you are starting off as a big underdog. You can't play this had if you even see one other 5. and do play this hand for a rasie. You want to limp with alot of other people to give you > Low pair: > 1) If dealt a low pair such as (2 7) 2, I'll usually play until I see another 2 > in the field or until someone pairs something higher on display. If I would > nail another 7 early on- I'd probably raise and be aggressive to remove drawing > hands and to get pot up with a chance for full house (even though it's weak). > If I got the third 2 I would raise and reraise. With a low pair, you need a live, over card kicker. the only exception is if you have a king kicker and there are 2 or more aces out (not together). The reason the kicker is so important is that if you have a low pair and someone else has an overpair, you are in huge trouble, more trouble than most realize. For example, if you have 22J and are up against 3QQ, you are a huge dog. You lose if you don't improve. But you will also lose alot when you do improve because, the 3QQ will also improve to a better hand. However, if you had 22K, you can make a hand to beat Queens up. The reason you can play king kickers against an ace ( as long as another one is out) it that many people with play garbage with an ace door card. But if you know your up against a pair of aces, you should fold. mark | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, kaleb2000, 18. May 2003 12:29 | ||
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| Wow! Thanks for the comments. I find them extremely helpfull! They make sense. What you're suggesting is more conservative than I normally had played but I am modifying my strategy to be more inline with what you posted. What you explained is really what has happend to me in the past -where I get trapped. I think I'm off to a good start with a low pair or potential straigth- but don't realize that probably at least someone else has something better. The odds just aren't on my side when against 8 people. Would you agree that up against two (3 at the table total) you could play the low pair a little more often? But fold a draw hand possibly everytime unless it is QKA offsuit ? Thanks again. | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, ice, 18. May 2003 21:02 | ||
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| i think TJQ or JQK is a more appealing high strait draw than QKA... because they are open ended(even though its a 3strait), and as before if your faces are live, you can make high pairs. AKQ, you need to catch a specific two cards, a J and a T.. where as, if you play TJQ or JQK... and you make a four strait on forth, you have a much higher probability of making your strait from 5th until the river. *********** ¡¢£ßøx | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, Mark, 20. May 2003 08:15 | ||
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| Would you agree > that up against two (3 at the table total) you could play the low pair a little more > often? But fold a draw hand possibly everytime unless it is QKA offsuit ? > > Thanks again. If you're starting shorthanded, you can really loosen up, but be very aware of your door cards and what they suggest you have. Against 2 opponents i would play almost every hand that isn't raised. I the hand is raised, and you have a low pair, you need a good kicker to play. If the hand has not been raised by the time it comes to you, raise your small pair as long as your kicker is decent (8 or above, or the the highest kicker showing). Against 2 opponents, straights go down in value. Frequently, there will not be enough money in the pot to chase cards, so only play them when they are big cards (strong pairing value). If you know your opponents well, you can play many more hands. mark | ||
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| Re: seven card stud strategy, 4 POKER, 23. May 2003 16:58 | ||
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| Seven card stud is all about playing and drawing to "Live" cards. Whether you decide to play a straight draw or not should depend on how "live" your cards are to hit and improve. Playing straight draws like 5,6,7 do not have any value to them and are plain and simple, very bad holdings. You should be looking to play straight draws only if you have high over cards with maybe a two flush or something to go along with your draw.(straights are very hard to complete so if you choose to only play high straight draws and ones that are "live", at least if you make a pair on the earlier rounds of betting, you may still be able to follow through with your draw or at least give you more outs to the hand). Hands like 9,10,J are as low as I will enter the pot with. And that too will depend on who else in the pot before me and who is still left to act. Are there players in the hand who are yet to act that are showing overcards, and how much am I willing to put in with these straight draws? Those things must be taken into consideration before playing a drawing hand. As far as the small pairs go, two deuces unless you were the bring in and there was no raise, that hand should be right in the muck. Even other small pairs have to be played cautiously and most of the time are not even worth playing unless you are in a steal position or you have a high door card with your small pair in the pocket. Then you can try and represent a stronger holding as to the one you really have. But that too will depend on your opponents; who has acted already, who is left to act and your table image. When drawing to a flush you should keep in mind that you will give yourself the best chance of improving that draw if you choose to draw to high flushes opposed to any three flush cards on third street. This way if you hit a pair along the way, that pair may be high enough to give you more "outs" and not to mention, when you are drawing to a flush, you must be very careful that noone else is drawing to the same hand that you are. That is why it is imperative to draw to hands that are strongest in value(high rankings) so you won't be drawing to a second best flush and so on. The best advice I could give you would be to play strong holdings... Come in with the best of it, and Play your hands aggresively.(selective but aggresive poker is the best way to play). Keep in mind, that if you find yourself "calling'" too often during the hand or hands, you are probably playing starting hands that are not strong enough. You should be able to bet and or raise most of your starting hands in seven card stud. That is what I am referring to by playing "selective poker". Play hands that have strength. Make sure you are getting the "correct price" when drawing to your straights and flushes. You'll show far better results. . 4 POKER | ||
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