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Server Time: 11/20/2009 8:53:02 PM PACIFIC |
 How do you simulate tilt?, Big_Slick, 15. May 2003 08:06 | ||
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| This is from Mike Caro... "If your opponents are taking turns going on tilt, and you come into the game and play perfectly stable, you won't fit in. They will resent you and often they will stop providing you with profit. The trick is to play along and show some fast action, too. Simulate tilt. Make them aware of it. But pass your turn when they don't notice. Among equally skilled players, the one who spends the least time on tilt (or simulating tilt) wins the most money." Was just wondering how people felt about this, specifically the "They will resent you and often they will stop providing you with profit." line. I find that a bit far fetched, but I'm not a poker genius either. Also, how does one simulate going on tilt? I've read about this for a while but never quite understood it. | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, stdioh, 15. May 2003 10:39 | ||
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| Yes. I've played with some real live ones who have said things like, "I don't want to play with that guy because he only plays hands that always win." What he means is that compared to his loose fishery, a reall player is a rock. You need to play 46o the odd time, show it down, and let them know that you're one of the good old boys. This is only appropriate though if you're playing with a table full of suckers...like a really friendly home game or the likes. | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Big_Slick, 15. May 2003 10:42 | ||
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| Gotcha. Thanks stdioh. | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Wren, 15. May 2003 11:02 | ||
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| Besides, the "Charlie" wins its fair share of the time anyway :O) | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, stdioh, 15. May 2003 14:49 | ||
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| GRIN! | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, noiseboy, 15. May 2003 11:11 | ||
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| There are several different ways I promote my image as a "gambler". Oftentimes, I use the odds to randomize my play so it looks as though I'm playing iffy hands when in reality, I have the odds to do so. If there are loose geese at the table, and your image is getting too tight, try playing a suited connector like 78s up front. Let's say nobody is playing with you and you get it heads up with the BB. In limit poker it wouldn't cost you that much to stay in to the river and show it down if you don't hit the draw. If you hit or not, definitely show the hand so they know you were in there gambling. Another thing is to sometimes raise in late position with small pairs when you have enough callers to make it worth it. Anyway, if your image is that tight, they will put you on AA's or KK's, so if you hit your set with a garbage flop, and one of the other players hits 2 pair, he will think he has you trapped when the reverse is true and you can take them down for a lot of bets. Another important thing to do when your image gets too tight, is to use it to steal a succession of small pots. If everone folds to you in middle to late position, and you have something like KT, go ahead and raise to try to get the blinds. Or if you have A-rag and it's folded to you on the button, try to steal that pot! Or if you raised with two big cards, a garbage flop comes and it is checked to you, go ahead and bet. If you successfully steal because of your tight image, say someone folds a small pair or something, be SURE to let everyone know that you just won with K-high or whatever. You don't need to overdo this, even just once will stick in people's minds, then you are not the guy sitting around waiting for pocket AA's anymore. I know this is all really general advice, as I am more intuitive than math oriented by nature, but the general idea is to set up calls for later when you DO have a monster. | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Wren, 15. May 2003 11:49 | ||
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| Good points, Noiseboy. I tend to do a lot of these things that you've suggested, and I find that it really helps me get action on my bigger hands. You really don't have to do this stuff too often; throw in a raise with 67h in late position, show it down, and the more astute players at the table will remember this, and play to it, for hours afterwards (of course, you don't have to worry about the less astute players at the table - they'll most likely pay you off anyway :O) I also tend to be a chatterbox at the table. I find that this has the benefit of making me sort of *look* like an action player, when really I'm not playing too many hands. I definitely do NOT go on about how many crap hands I'm getting dealt - if anything, I think this fosters a rock-like image. | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, noiseboy, 15. May 2003 12:12 | ||
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| Hey, thanks for pointing out one of my faults. Your post made me realize that, although I do make the plays I mentioned from time to time for advertising, one thing I tend to do when I'm waiting a long time for a hand, is I try to pay as much attention to how the other players play their hands and their body language as possible. I really concentrate and focus on this, and tend to just go into complete silence, which makes me seem more like a rock than I actually am. Table talk is very important, not just because it will make you seem involved when you are not, but it also tends to loosen everyone else up and create the "fun" table that you always want to be playing at. People tend to gamble more when they are having fun and not being super serious. Anyway, paying close attention to the other players when I'm not in a hand is one of my strengths, but I should learn to do that while I'm engaging in the table banter. Thanks! | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Big_Slick, 15. May 2003 12:13 | ||
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| Lots of good stuff. Thanks Wren and NB. | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Wren, 15. May 2003 13:14 | ||
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| Definitely...I love playing at a table where most of the people are in jovial spirits, having a good time. Yup, people are willing to gamble it up a bit more, it keeps the game interesting and fun, and I find I'm able to focus better than when everyone's sitting there in tense silence. Also, this kind of atmosphere makes people feel more friendly to one another, and hands/betting actions are discussed more frequently (which can provide some insight into other people's playing styles). And one final benefit: I often get sweet little old ladies feeding me Wuerther's Originals. And people wonder why I don't want to move up to 10-20 :D | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Short Stackd, 15. May 2003 11:11 | ||
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| It would depend on what level of poker you're playing and why they are playing. In psychology of Poker, Schoonmaker states that certain players unconsciously want to lose. I find there is an abundance amount of these certain players at all levels. Are we really talking about players who are On Tilt or just maniacs. If they are serious players who have anger management issues, do you play their game and have them stay, or do you continue to punish them for their bad play and risk them leaving? And if they're just going to lose anyway what money are you losing? Mike Caro is probably talking about single sessions here. But if these are chronic issues with these players, I wouldn't worry about any single session, long run results will always be there. If he's talking about a usually stoic player on tilt I don't see his reasoning for simulating your on tilt as well. Now I asked the question if he was talking about Maniacs. This is a different situation all together. Yes you must alter your play or they will stop playing with you. Most don't care that you are playing tight, but they do hate check and call. They're playing for action, that's why they are there. You have to gamble it up with them, they will start folding everytime you show aggression or check behind you. So how do you simulate Tilt. Here's my answer. Value bet, value bet, value bet. Also make difficult raises with borderline decisions. I've found it more effective to eliminate the check-raise with these players. And if you're trying to simulate being on tilt some hymning and hawing is not bad either. Overall I would have to disagree with Mike Caro's statement. I do not see the reasoning behind acting on tilt, unless your trapping a player who has been trying to take advantage of your tough loses. | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Andrew Wells, 19. May 2003 22:30 | ||
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| Semibluff bet or raise your gut shot with overcards. Whichever you hit, many players will think you gambled and got lucky. If you miss and take the free card on the turn and it only costs one big bet to call a single player down, then say something like "I call that obvious bluff" and show your unimproved KQ even if you are beat. | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Mike Caro, 20. May 2003 18:14 | ||
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| on 15. May 2003 08:06 Big_Slick wrote: > This is from Mike Caro... > > "If your opponents are taking turns going on tilt, and you come into the > game and play perfectly stable, you won't fit in. They will resent you and often > they will stop providing you with profit. > > The trick is to play along and show some fast action, too. Simulate tilt. Make > them aware of it. But pass your turn when they don't notice. Among equally > skilled players, the one who spends the least time on tilt (or simulating tilt) > wins the most money." > > Was just wondering how people felt about this, specifically the "They will > resent you and often they will stop providing you with profit." line. I find > that a bit far fetched, but I'm not a poker genius either. > > Also, how does one simulate going on tilt? I've read about this for a while but > never quite understood it. Hi, noiseboy -- The trick is to pretend to be on tilt (returning to your opponents only a small portion of the too-liberal action that they're giving you) while actually remaining completely in control. Then, you know exactly what you're doing, and they don't, because they're emotionally blinded by the action. If you just sit back and try to take advantage, it soon becomes conspicuously apparent that you're no fun to play against, and opponents manage to control themselves against you specifically -- at least to some degree. And to whatever degreee they manage to play better against you, that's profit you lose. By playing along, but not giving back nearly as much as you get, I believe you make the most profit against the most common type sof opponent. (There are, of course, some rare opponents who are oblivious to the fact that you're taking advantage, making your adjustments unnecessary -- but most aren't like that.) Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: How do you simulate tilt?, Big_Slick, 22. May 2003 07:02 | ||
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| That makes a whole lotta sense... thanks for your reply, Mike! | ||
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