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Server Time: 11/20/2009 7:44:07 PM PACIFIC |
 Phil H whining again?, Easy E, 14. May 2003 14:18 | ||
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| Is it just me, or should I get Phil a crying towel? http://www.cardplayer.com/?sec=afeature&art_id=13265 | ||
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| Re: Phil H whining again?, Big_Slick, 14. May 2003 14:44 | ||
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| Wasn't it Phil himself who tried to bluff with a 3-2 against Phil Ivey a month or so ago on the travel channel? I don't remember the exact hand, but it was total garbage. I'll tell you what...if Phil ever meets Varkonyi in a game, perhaps he'll think twice when a 6-6-7 flops and Varkonyi raises. | ||
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| Re: Phil H whining again?, noiseboy, 14. May 2003 16:20 | ||
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| Yeah, he always brings up Varkony as if he was the biggest fish in the entire world. However, having watched that year's series on tape, I have to say a lot of Varkony's plays were extremely aggressive, but not entirely fishy. Sometimes people are in there with garbage, not because they are sucky players, but because they know they have to make moves on the pot once in awhile. Otherwise, they will never get callers when they are on a real hand. Hellmuth plays some crappy hands too, when he is bluffing at the pot, so I don't know why he always has to criticize. | ||
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| Re: Phil H whining again?, flintsword, 14. May 2003 17:39 | ||
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| I just got back from Las Vegas, spectator at Binions for the WSOP, and watched event # 26 ($3,000 buy-in Limit Holdem over two days)(http://www.pokerpages.com/tournament/result7079.htm) won by Tom Jacobs. Phil Helmuth was at the final table because he IS a great player, and a spectator next to me whispered "Gee, things sure are more peaceful when Phil is getting blinded off". I was there and Phil was calm and took getting blinded off like a trooper. Out at six and collects his $15,040 from Ms. Binion. I think that his "bad boy" reputation may be getting bigger than reality, so maybe cutting the guy some slack is an idea. He behaved ok then. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, chasepoker, 14. May 2003 18:37 | ||
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| Am i the only person who actually likes Phil Helmuth ? I repsect him as a player and believe that a lot of his skill comes in gettng reactions and having an air of superiority aroung him which is very in depth and shows his he a VERY clever player and great psycholigist. I think he shows all the attributes, all of us here strive to obtain and most of us never will. That all sounds a bit kiss a** doesnt it ? Er you know what i mean though right ? i dont wish to spend the next week defending Mr Helmuth, i just think his brain is on a higher lever than most of us, i even think that article he wrote sends out a message to other players he is always trying to control people and that IMHO is half of poker. This leads me on to another connected point which might get overlooked in this post, does anyone ever think that some of the advice given by many pros is not always correct as surely it is in their interest to not have great players around them or is it just my paranoia finally surfacing. Just some thoughts. 7 High's Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, Big_Slick, 14. May 2003 19:26 | ||
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| I actually like Phil. It's his attitude towards amateur players that I don't care for. | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, Easy E, 14. May 2003 20:48 | ||
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| Exactly! And he makes silly plays himself (remember the 32 steal in an earlier WPT tournament?) but THOSE are the moves of a champion.... I don't mind a little cockiness, but don't WHINE about it when you get beat. | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, shorn, 15. May 2003 04:37 | ||
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| I am in the "don't like Phil" camp, but I have no doubt that he is one of the top minds in the game. His play can be erratic at times, but at that level you need to do that to keep your opponents guessing. The main fact is that as Big_Slick pointed out, he treats other people like dirt when they draw out on him. IMHO, this is a MAJOR flaw in his game (that and tilting) that if he corrected, he would be right there a lot more often. You never see Phil Ivey whine about getting outdrawn, do you? The guy is all business and understands that sometimes other players get lucky when you have the best of it. | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, Easy E, 15. May 2003 08:56 | ||
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| Even more so, people drawing out are WHY people like Phil can make a living at poker, even? on the tournament circuit as it currently exists. He should stop whining and concentrate on his play and taking advantage of the play of others. | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, noiseboy, 15. May 2003 14:03 | ||
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| Ditto. I think he is a great player, however, his achilles heel is that he gives the amatuer no respect. This is true of a lot of pros, they think only pros can play poker, and whenever a non-pro wins something, they always attribute it to luck. I think Robert V. won the world series not just because he obviously got the right cards at the right times, but also because several of the pros at the table basically gave him all of their chips when he was on a monster. There were several occasions that if another pro made some of the bets that Varkony made, the other pros would have mucked without a seconds thought. But I like Phil too, all his BS aside, he kinda gives some comic relief to the game, and he is undoubtedly one of the all-time greats. | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, stdioh, 15. May 2003 15:23 | ||
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| Indeed, Varkonyi won because two things happened. He got run over by the deck. Nobody have him any respect. Had he been getting average cards, those lions would have trounced him. Had people played him like he was one of their own, they would have also trounced him. Hubris screwed over players like Shipley. | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, noiseboy, 15. May 2003 16:27 | ||
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| Well, actually, some of the fishy plays he made during the beginning at the final table were because he was in last place, barely holding onto any chips. I think he was right to play very aggressively, when he had everything to win and nothing to lose. I think his goal was to win the whole enchilada and not worry about hanging on for a bigger payout. In addition, it is possible that some of the marginal hands he played, were setting up calls for later. When he did get the real hands like pocket AA's and QQ's, people were jumping over themselves to call his all-in bets. The feeling I got was that nobody knew what to expect from Varkony, because of his hyper-aggressive play, nobody had a good read on him. Anyway, I'd be interested to see some of the hands he played to get to the final table in the first place. I'm not sure whether he's a genius or just lucky. Maybe he was aware of which players didn't give him respect and tried to exploit that. Also, didn't he win another tournament pretty soon after the WSOP? That would run contrary to the "Varkony is just lucky" theory. However, he did get a pretty amazing streak of cards at just the right time. I almost think that I could've won the WSOP with those kind've hands! Probably not, but maybe. | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, stdioh, 16. May 2003 10:17 | ||
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| He played QTo very badly a lot. He elliminated Phil with this hand and also won the final pot with it. | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, SKinner, 16. May 2003 11:37 | ||
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| on 16. May 2003 10:17 stdioh wrote: > He played QTo very badly a lot. He elliminated Phil with this hand and also won the final pot with it. While I realize that this loose play is perhaps not the best model to be followed, it did raise a question in my mind: Do you have a favorite hand? One with which you just feel lucky? Of course, I know this goes against the mathematical nature of poker. Nevertheless, I wonder...do you guys have favorite hands? Or is that just too fishy? –SKinner | ||
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| Re: Phil H winning again?, stdioh, 15. May 2003 10:17 | ||
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| I like Phil. I just think that he bitches too much. And his latest, "I'm some kind of psychic" kick is bugging the crap out of me. | ||
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| Re: Phil H whining again?, stdioh, 15. May 2003 10:16 | ||
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| No kidding. Phil is whining like a small child who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas. Somebody ought to slap that whiney ninny. You should be so lucky as to have giant fish at your final table. | ||
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| Re: Phil H whining again?, Risky Business, 15. May 2003 10:57 | ||
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| The only thing that matters is, will you buy his books? In no other fashion do 99% of us have anything to do with Phil Hellmuth. -- From the 'I respect Phil and wouldn't be surprised if it's an act' camp on 15. May 2003 10:16 stdioh wrote: > No kidding. Phil is whining like a small child who didn't get what he wanted for > Christmas. Somebody ought to slap that whiney ninny. You should be so lucky as to > have giant fish at your final table. | ||
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| Re: Phil H whining again?, Big_Slick, 15. May 2003 11:54 | ||
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| Actually, I did buy his book and I'm enjoying it immensely. | ||
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| Re: Phil H whining again?, stdioh, 15. May 2003 15:24 | ||
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| The "only" thing I "really dislike" about "Phil's" "writing" is that he puts "every" second "word" in "quotes" | ||
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