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Server Time: 11/20/2009 10:37:10 PM PACIFIC |
 Ethical tournament play question, spartan51, 14. May 2003 09:45 | ||
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| If you are short stacked in a tournament and you are close to finishing in the money, is it ethical to deliberately take longer to bet, call or fold just to slow the play down in a tournament, in hopes that someone else will be eliminated before you, thus allowing you to finish in the money? (I play mostly online but my question is for B & M tournaments as well.) Thanks to all who respond. | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, Risky Business, 14. May 2003 09:50 | ||
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| In any game you pay to play, and involves blatant lying, I'd take your descriptions as 'gamesmanship' or 'strategy'. Nobody made those bubble players play their final hands. on 14. May 2003 09:45 spartan51 wrote: > If you are short stacked in a tournament and you are close to finishing in the > money, is it ethical to deliberately take longer to bet, call or fold just to > slow the play down in a tournament, in hopes that someone else will be > eliminated before you, thus allowing you to finish in the money? (I play mostly > online but my question is for > B & M tournaments as well.) > > Thanks to all who respond. > > > > | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, Schuster, 14. May 2003 10:36 | ||
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| I think the more correct question would be, "Do you think it's ethical?" In the end, if you want to do this and you don't have a problem with it, then do it. If you wouldn't feel right about it, don't do it. I'm sure there's some observers on both sides of the coin. In the end, I don't think any poker player could fault you too greatly for using a bit of deception in order to win more money (this is what poker is about, right?). Lee | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, stdioh, 14. May 2003 10:59 | ||
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| I think that this is a fine line. I would say that if you are purposefully sitting on your ass and being a dick to slow down your table, in hopes of the other table ending then this is unethical. If you take 10 seconds to make a decision instead of 5, I'd say that you are colouring within the lines. The same goes for playing quickly when the blinds are about to go up. Nobody will say that you are being unethical if you opt not to play cards that you normally would in order to move the puck along faster and dodge a blinds increase...that is just strategy...so I think taking a little extra time is ok. Of course we all define "little extra time" in different ways. I guess a good rule of thumb is that it is ok to stall on one hand and if anybody says anything at your table to indicate that they know what you are doing and you should hurry the hell up, then let off it. | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, stdioh, 14. May 2003 11:02 | ||
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| I should note that I found it extremely irratating on ultimatebet when a tourney would be down to 2 tables and it was bubble time and nobody would play until they had to...people would say to their table, "nobody play now. The guy at the other table only has 200." It would drag on and on and on, and for no good reason. Then they changed it to "hand-by-hand" rules, so if one table was playing slower than the other at the end of the tourney, they would freeze the faster table at the end of a hand until the slower table caught up. I believe some B&M tourneys do this to. So if it's a real problem, you can shift the blame for the behaviour hapening to those who make the rules in the tourneys in which you play. Han-by-hand play is slow and annoying, but not nearly as slow and annoying as players waiting until they HAVE to play to play. | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, Risky Business, 14. May 2003 12:43 | ||
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| I don't play at UB, but I don't think I like that 'hand by hand' bit either. If someone is going to sit back and wait, it doesn't matter what the format is, they're still going to sit back and wait!! They might as well move the button to the low stack and play it from there. From the outside looking in....I guess this makes the table even shorter near the end knowing that a select few want nothing to do with the hand unless they draw huge hole cards. Optimum blind stealing scenario. on 14. May 2003 11:02 stdioh wrote: > I should note that I found it extremely irratating on ultimatebet when a tourney would be > down to 2 tables and it was bubble time and nobody would play until they had to...people > would say to their table, "nobody play now. The guy at the other table only has 200." It > would drag on and on and on, and for no good reason. Then they changed it to > "hand-by-hand" rules, so if one table was playing slower than the other at the end of the > tourney, they would freeze the faster table at the end of a hand until the slower table > caught up. I believe some B&M tourneys do this to. So if it's a real problem, you can > shift the blame for the behaviour hapening to those who make the rules in the tourneys in > which you play. Han-by-hand play is slow and annoying, but not nearly as slow and annoying > as players waiting until they HAVE to play to play. | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, stdioh, 15. May 2003 10:04 | ||
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| Right, but this isn't just a question of people getting really tight...it is also a question of people not acting and wasting time when they know that their action will be a fold. | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, TKarrde, 14. May 2003 12:14 | ||
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| I know during the WSOP when it gets down to X number of players they make each table play hand for hand so that doesn't happen. I just doen't remember if X is before or after the money. TK | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, Jav, 14. May 2003 13:20 | ||
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| I'm pretty sure they start doing hand by hand when they are down to two tables. | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, MozMan, 14. May 2003 12:54 | ||
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| I don't really see a problem with what you've described, but be careful as there is a fine-line you don't want to cross. In online tourneys, I have seen players be active through the flop, then suddenly refuse to act on the turn if a bet has been made ahead of them. When the games times them out, it treats them as "All-in" for the remainder of the hand, allowing them to still be in the main pot. Essentially, they get to continue playing the hand without having to call any more bets. Then they hit the "sit-in" button before the next hand is dealt. If you allow your delay to go this far, then you've done something unethical; you shouldn't be all-in unless you have no more chips or a legitimate connection issue. | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, TKarrde, 14. May 2003 13:14 | ||
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| How about this one.... I am playing a sit and go. I have about 800 chips on a table of 10k. The game has lasted much longer than I expected it to. So I try to play stupid to get rid of the money so that I can leave. But a strange thing happens... I start winning. A lot! I keep going all-in... having people call... and taking down the pot. I tried to give it away. But couldn't. I didn't want to bet huge and then fold. That wouldn't have been fair to the others. When I could no longer play I was at T2500. What I did next I felt bad about. I left the game on and left. I ended up 3rd and in the money. I felt bad, but it was a $$$ Sit and Go (I usually just play for points). TK | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, stdioh, 15. May 2003 10:06 | ||
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| Nothing wrong with what you did there dude. Much better than going almost all in and then folding. Leaving and being blinded out is a perfectly legit play. | ||
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| Re: Ethical tournament play question, JunglingS, 20. May 2003 09:25 | ||
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| Since you obviously don't make this a habit, I don't see anything wrong with it at all. On the other hand, I can think of 4 or 5 players I have run into several times in sit and go's who do this every time they hit 3rd. Frequently they make it to second because they aren't doing anything while the other two bust each other up, and then whoever does get second has to sit forever blinding them out. I believe isolated incidents are perfectly valid, and justified. When this is a habit though, it falls under ungentlemanly conduct, and is one of the few things that really bothers me in online poker. | ||
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