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Server Time: 11/20/2009 9:29:50 PM PACIFIC |
 AK offsuit in low limit, Roy Seider, 13. May 2003 14:25 | ||
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| Need your opinions. Should you just call with ak in low limit.? It is so frustrating when you raise and miss. How should you play if you miss? Thanks | ||
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| Re: AK offsuit in low limit, MozMan, 13. May 2003 15:18 | ||
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| Believe it or not, this can be one of the most difficult hands for a fairly new player to handle... I struggle with it all the time. Most likely, before the flop you *probably* have the best hand at the table, so play it fast. It's best if you're late, because then you can see how many limpers there are, and you can see if anyone has already raised. If you are at the end, and some limped, some folded, it's good to raise; in a low-limit game, when you have a good hand, people should pay to play with you. Here's what makes AKo a strong hand: on one side of the coin, it's a drawing hand, and drawing hands like lots of players; on the other side, it's two big cards, and big cards like less players. More often than not, you will be playing it as big cards; for this reason I often (not always) raise it under the gun, too, in an effort to thin the field. If the flop misses you completely, you probably still have overcards, but watch the action: you are really looking for an excuse to fold now, and laying down AKo is hard to do. If there's a lot of action, it might be a good idea to bail. In any event, a lot of this is speculative, and depends heavily on who your opponents are, what your position is, and a whole host of other things... :) | ||
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| Re: AK offsuit in low limit, Player X, 13. May 2003 15:43 | ||
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| No, you should pretty much always raise with it. If you miss the flop the pot is now big enough that unless the board is really threatening, you can just about always see the turn if it only costs one bet. Things become a little bit more complicated on the turn. So it is a much more depends on the situation then. -X Writer www.pokerev.com | ||
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| Re: AK offsuit in low limit, SendMoney, 13. May 2003 16:13 | ||
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| One of the problems with AKo is that even if you have ideal position, on the button, it is a very tricky hand to play, and even for a good players it can be a money leak. AKo is a hand I usually just call with from early or middle position, and I would use for a late position raise trying to steal the blinds. The reason I don't raise from early position is that I really DON'T want to chase off weak aces or weak kings. Now sometimes this strategy will backfire when AK is beaten by A7 making a freak two pair, but more often you will pick up a lot of easy and passive money because most people will call all the way with top pair even with a weak kicker. Another reason I don't like to raise with AKo from early position is I don't want to get married to this hand. It will miss on the flop quite often. If I hold AK and the flop comes say 6 7 8 or 9 9 10, I have no problem folding it right there. Now say if the flop was more like 6 10 Q, I would be more inclined to call with the gutshot at the nut straight, and two (possibly live) overcards. The problem with playing AKo when you completely miss the flop is the possibility that you're drawing dead - example: You hold AKo from early position in an raised pot with 5 players and the flop comes 2 6 10 mixed suits. Now suppose that one player holds A6s and another player holds K10s - in this situation you're not quite drawing completely dead, but you're close. You'll either have to catch an A and K perfectly for top two pair or Q and J perfectly for the nut straight. A single A or K and you'll lose to two pair, AA or KK your monster trips will lose to a boat. This is a basic drawing dead situation, and they happen enough. Now suppose that someone has a small pocket pair and flopped a set, your overcards would be almost completely dead, and even a top pair top kicker would be a huge underdog. Basically I think that AKo or AKs can make a very good profit margin when played somewhat conservatively, in unraised passive pots. Too many people make the mistake of playing AK as if it was AA or KK. This just isn't a hand that has great value or betting power when you miss the flop. When you raise pre-flop with AKo or AKs from late position, and you miss the flop, if someone bets, and you don't raise, an experienced player will gave a good idea what you have. If you raise pre-flop and the flop misses you and everyone checks to you, if you don't bet people will also know what you have. It's a tough situation however, do you put more of your money on the table with such a speculative hand or take the free card and encourage others to bet into you on later streets? | ||
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| Re: AK offsuit in low limit, NiceFella, 13. May 2003 20:00 | ||
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| I think it is a BIG mistake not to raise with AKo. If you are not raising with AKo (which you will be dealt as often as AA and KK combined), you are missing out on a lot of profit. You should be raising AK regularly, AQ frequently, and even AJ if no one else has shown strength. Raise anytime you think you have the best hand to punish those dolts who are hoping to limp in with A9 or Q9s. Raise to keep that small blind from limping in and sucking out on you. If it has been raised before it gets to me, I may just call or reraise depending on who raised, how many players have called, and how many players are left to act behind me. Many losing low-limit players make the pessimistic argument "It doesn't matter if I raise, he's going to call anyway." But that's GOOD news, because your hand is better, and it's a mistake for worse hands to call your raise. Look at it this way: you've got a 1/3 chance of catching an A or a K on the flop. Yes, this means that 2/3 of the time, your AK will miss and you might regret your raise. But 1/3 of the time, your AK will come through, and if your raise has been called by 3 or more other players, you've more than paid for the times you missed! Plus, raising before the flop puts you in a position of power after the flop. Opponents may check to you instead of betting, and may be more inclined to fold when you bet. Yes, if many players take the flop and you miss, you probably don't have the best hand anymore and will probably fold when the betting gets heavy. Oh well. Just because you raised before the flop doesn't mean you are married to the hand. You should be willing to let this hand go immediately if you are sure you are beat -- just like you should with AA or any other hand. Against only one or two opponents, if the flop misses you, there's a chance it missed your opponents as well. You really need to bet to find out. If you don't get raised, you ought to bet again on the turn. Yeah, sometimes you get trapped into betting over and over with nothing and getting called all the way, but remember we're just playing the odds here. If neither you nor your opponent has a hand, you win by betting. If the chance of buying the pot exceeds the pot odds you're getting paid, then that's good poker. People fear AK because they don't know what to do when they miss. Well, what do you do with 55 when you miss? Or when you have JT and you miss? You lose. But with AK, you had by far the best hand going in, and it was right to raise. So many players are afraid to raise without the nuts. Nothing is certain in this world. Proper poker play dictates: 1. When you have the best hand, get more money in the pot by raising. 2. When you have a good but vulnerable hand, encourage others who might draw out on you to fold by raising. 3. If you've got a 1/3 chance to improve, and stand to more than triple your money as a result, that's a good bet, and you should take it. All of these apply to AK before the flop, whether you are under the gun or in the big blind. Don't be one of those passive fraidy-cats who never raise without the nuts. That's losing poker. NiceFella | ||
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| Re: AK offsuit in low limit, Snorbolus, 14. May 2003 05:17 | ||
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| Good post Nice. The only things that I am not sure about are betting the flop with AKo when you miss and then going again on the turn. This is obvioulsy very opponent and texture of the flop dependent but, in general, I would be looking for an excuse to check-fold the flop after it missed me. The more and looser my opponents, the more weak passive I would be inclined to play here. If I bet and was called on the flop I would be very disinclined to bet again on the turn. Right now I can't think of any situations where I would call a bet on the turn with an unimproved AKo. The problem with overcards is that you are drawing to top pair. Top pair (with a good kicker) is nice when you have it on the flop but you don't really want callers even then. Is this a holding that you should feel happy about drawing to? Everything else you wrote was, in my opinion, spot on though. If things were looking ugly enough that I didn't want to raise my AKo before the flop then I would probably fold it right there. Snorbolus > Against only one or two opponents, if the flop misses you, there's a chance it > missed your opponents as well. You really need to bet to find out. If you don't get > raised, you ought to bet again on the turn. > > Yeah, sometimes you get trapped ........ | ||
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| Re: AK offsuit in low limit, shorn, 14. May 2003 05:23 | ||
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| I tend to agree with SendMoney for the most part on how to deal with AKo. However, IMHO, the most important factors in how you should play this hand pre-flop have to do with your position, how many players are already in the hand, and the texture of the table. Post flop, it is easier to determine what to do. Your position: At a normal table, I will raise 95% of the time with this hand UTG or in early position. AKo DOES NOT play well versus a lot of opponents, so if I think I can narrow the field by raising, then I will. In middle position, it is a little more tricky because you could have callers in front of you. If there are only 1 or 2, I will raise 90-100% of the time unless I know tha the players behind me will cold call 2 no matter what. If that is the case, i want to see the flop as cheaply as possible. In late position, I will only raise if there are 1 or 2 callers in front of me. You have to remember, with 3 or more callers you are GIVING implied odds with this hand (or any two high unsuited cards), and that is not the ideal situation. Obviously, if no one has called, then you definitely raise to steal. Number of players: I already covered this a bit above, but it is worth stressing again. AKo is a big favorite versus one or two limping opponents, but becomes a drawing hand (most likely to a straight) with 3 or more opponents. So, you need to play the hand accordingly. As is often the case in LLHE, you will have a lot more than 2 callers in front of you, so I often just limp in to see the flop cheaply. One other thing to consider is that if there is a raise to your immediate right (depending on the player), you should strongly consider 3-betting as even in LL, most players won't caold call 3 bets and even callers prior to the raise will think twice before calling two more cold. This is a good play to try and isolate the raiser and may even get you a free card on the turn. Texture of game: I also touched on this a bit. If the game you are playing in is a wild one (7 way capped action pre-flop), then AKo becomes a BIG BIG loser. In fact, at that kind of table, I would rather play JTs or 98s than AKo. You will not be able to push people off of their hands, and ytou will likely need to hit twice (or more) to win. If I am in a game like this, AKo goes into the muck often pre-flop. It just won't pay the bills. This is a great example of varying the type of hands you play based on the texture of the game/your opponents. One last thing that has been pointed out by others is that you have to learn to throw AKo away when it isn't good anymore. Regardless of whether you raised pre-flop or not, don't chase or get married to it if it doesn't improve. Sure, you might have had the best hand preflop, but when the flop comes down 987 rainbow, don't hesitate to muck. This is one reason why many players lose a ton of $$ with this hand. Good luck, Steve | ||
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| Re: AK offsuit in low limit, stdioh, 14. May 2003 07:02 | ||
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| It is important to raise this hand in low limit because you want to thin the field. This is a hand that plays really nicely against 3 opponents. If you miss, tough cookies...throw them away or outplay your opponents with them. The other point to mention is that if you do raise preflop and miss, you are likely to be up against a board that is relatively raggety...you might be able to get your opponents to put you on an overpair there and fold to your bluff. | ||
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