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Server Time: 8/29/2008 9:24:09 PM PACIFIC |
 Strategy against terrible players, Bond18, 13. May 2003 10:30 | ||
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| I'd like to open the forum up for discussion on how to beat terrible players. I have been playing 1-2 HE at paradise and the play there is atrocious. For example i limped in pre flop with AA, it was raised so i reraised. I bet it the whole way thru and am beaten by two players holding Q8, who had NOTHING until river. How does one beat players who make such terrible moves? How can you win with so many players drawing out against you. Raising heavy pre flop? Check raising? im scrambling for ideas here help me out. | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, Risky Business, 13. May 2003 10:59 | ||
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| There are as many different styles of players out there as there are combinations of cards. You don't want to completely eliminate those players, as they'll fill your pockets more than empty them. Tighten up in a loose game, sounds like you're just in a bad swing. Let me guess, you just cashed out too!!! (ha ha to everyone that gets the joke) | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, noiseboy, 13. May 2003 11:05 | ||
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| Raise with those AA's up front. While you can argue for a limp reraise if you are sure that you will be raised so that you can reraise, I find in loose games it pays to go ahead and raise, because a loose player might not call a raise cold, but once they have a bet in, they are never going to fold. Actually, I guess you want them in with crap hands, as you are more of a money favorite with the AA's with more callers; however, I like a few people to drop, so that they are more likely to stand up, and so that I'll know where I'm at if I get a flop I like. If you limp, you will still win money with the AA's, over the long haul, but the suckouts are very frustrating. | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, 4 POKER, 13. May 2003 11:05 | ||
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| If you're playing at a table where there are too many bad and unreadable opponents and are willing to call bets and raises with absolutely No hand whatsoever, It's going to be very tough for you to put them on a hand. Playing really tight is a good approach in a very loose game but that still doesn't mean that your pocket AA's are going to survive with too many callers unless you flop something really big. (There could be a whole bunch of junk out there and you may not even realize that someone actually has two pair, or some other crappy holding). But I'd still play my really big pairs(A-A and K-K) as aggresively as I could pre-flop; make them pay to hit their trash. I woudn't be making too many other raises or reraises with the pairs that you may usually tend to raise with when you're just trying to isolate one or two opponents; that can become too costly and they'll be way too many players that will be happy to call your raises. (your medium pairs like 10-10, J-J, and even Q-Q, go down in value a little bit with the whole table in there chasing). Normally I wouldn't say that J-J and Q-Q are medium pairs but in games like those, they usually wind up being just that. When the game is particularly loose, I would tend to be more aggresive and use the isolation tactic after the flop and on the turn. I'd be applying the check-raising approach more as well(when I felt that I had two pair or something to that nature). But be aware of all those low to medium straight draws too and crappy flush draws... they are all going to be out there no matter what you do! And if you feel that none of your approaches are working enough and you're just not getting anywhere in those types of games.... Change Games. Chose a game that you'll be able to beat. It's not easy to beat a hold-em game sometimes when nine of your opponents are seeing the flop. I'd pick a game that had a couple of really bad players in it, a few tight players, maybe one Maniac, and the rest of them average. You need a little stability in the game so you can apply more of your strategies and make the occasional semi-bluff raises and so on. Try watching a couple of games first, see what might be a "good game" for YOU, and then decide. Good luck. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, Player X, 13. May 2003 11:53 | ||
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| I posted this in the low limit schooling thread. Hopefully it'll give you a general idea from some of the adjustments you need to make. "In incredibly loose games, you need to adjust the hands you play accordingly. Hands like KJoff QJoff should be folded from late position after many callers (and you shouldn't be playing them up front either. Also, a witha hand like AQoff with many callers in front of you, you should consider just calling with instead of raising. Then if you hit the flop, you have a reasonable chance that you will be bet into and then you can raise to try and limit the field and punish those who stay. Lastly, the biggest way to improve your game against the players is to learn to make good laydowns against the predictable opponents who only bet hands that are close to the nuts. Some playings will be total calling stations unless they have two pair or better. If you can learn to fold your top pair against these type of opponents, you should have no trouble beating the game you're in for a sizable amount. " -X Writer www.pokerev.com | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, stdioh, 13. May 2003 13:37 | ||
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| Easy. Play well. Wait. Be prepared for swings. Most of the time those guys won't get there, you'll take the pot and their cards will go into the muck. It is when they fish out on you that you notice how stupid they are. Just slowly pound on them and remember that no matter how bad your opponents are, you can still only make money very slowly at hold'em. | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, 4 POKER, 13. May 2003 13:47 | ||
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| on 13. May 2003 13:37 stdioh wrote: > Easy. Play well. Wait. Be prepared for swings. > > Most of the time those guys won't get there, you'll take the pot and their cards > will go into the muck. It is when they fish out on you that you notice how stupid > they are. Just slowly pound on them and remember that no matter how bad your > opponents are, you can still only make money very slowly at hold'em. Stdioh, I really liked what you had to say on this one...especially the very last sentence. Well put. Good job. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, Big_Slick, 13. May 2003 14:48 | ||
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| These types of games can be difficult. You need adjust your play if you are use to competing against better opponents. Usually as a rule, pairs go down in value and drawing hands go up in value. The reason being, when you've got 5 people seeing the river, there are going to be more straights and flushes hit. That being said, you need to be very aggressive when playing pairs, especially aces. You need to fill that pot with preflop raises... as many as you can get into that pot. A lot of players will simply check knowing that there will be a bet just so they can raise. To get more $$ in the pot. After the flop though, you need to be careful and observant. At this point, you are on the look-out for suits and possible straights. If the board flops 2 or 3 suited cards, you obviously need to be extra weary of a flush draw. If the flop brings 2 or 3 close cards, be weary of a straight. If the flop brings a pair, be weary of 3-of-kind. With this type of game, any pair on the board could be hit for a set of 3. If your aces are looking weak fold them. Too many players bet their aces to the bitter end. Remember, they are only the best hand before the flop. Don't become married to these cards... they will cost you money. Because drawing hands go up in value, you should play more of these hands. Suited connectors are a great weapon. The larger the connectors, the better. This doesn't mean that you play any 2 cards that are close and are suited. I would tend to avoid the smaller connectors like 2-3 and 4-5. I like 5-6, 5-7, A-6, A-7 because if the board brings 2-3-4-5, you'll clean up off of the poor sucker with the ace. However, A-x off suit is a dangerous hand for you and could lead to a lot of lost profit. I would only play that hand in strong position... preferably in one of the blinds where I know I can get in and out cheap. if the flop doesn't bring trips, a possible flush or straight or top 2 pair, ditch it like a... well... like a bad poker hand! These types of hands are nothing but heartache. Time for dinner... hope this helps. p.s. Know when you are beaten and don't be afraid to fold. Save some for another play. | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, Big_Slick, 13. May 2003 15:30 | ||
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| However, A-x off suit is a dangerous hand for you and could lead to a lot of lost profit. I would only play that hand in strong position... preferably in one of the blinds where I know I can get in and out cheap. What I meant to say was... it's a good hand to play in strong position when you know you can get in cheap. These are also good hands for the blinds. Be prepared to dump though if your hand does not improve immensely. From the blinds, you're in a vulnerable spot. | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, Roy Cooke, 13. May 2003 16:41 | ||
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| You keep playing solid cards solidly and don't let the beats affect you mentally Roy Cooke on 13. May 2003 10:30 Bond18 wrote: > I'd like to open the forum up for discussion on how to beat terrible players. I > have been playing 1-2 HE at paradise and the play there is atrocious. For > example i limped in pre flop with AA, it was raised so i reraised. I bet it the > whole way thru and am beaten by two players holding Q8, who had NOTHING until > river. How does one beat players who make such terrible moves? How can you win > with so many players drawing out against you. Raising heavy pre flop? Check > raising? im scrambling for ideas here help me out. | ||
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| Re: Strategy against terrible players, Cpt Kernow, 14. May 2003 02:26 | ||
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| I play a lot of low limt poker at Party, where I imagine things are even looser than Paradise. Often you will here people say things like if tou carry on playing against these players you will make your money back etc. The probability is that you have ALL READY profited off these players and will continue to do so in the future. Every time I get a bad suck out on the river from some one chasing with junk, I just think of all the artificialy inflated pots I have won upto that point due to the same behaviour ( and there chase not hitting, which is what happens most of the time) I think of all the times I have called players at the show down at laughed at how pathetic there holdings are given the board. So when I get a bad suck out I just think that given the huge amount of bad odd gambles my opponets take (which normally pay me) every now and again these gambles will pay off for these players. When this happens and some time it can grind like hell (Im the BB with 44, flop comes 994 someone bets I raise which is reraised the betting gets capped-turn=5 betting gets capped again river = 5 I lose with 4s full to someone showing 58s. for 5's full. They endured 2 rounds of capped betting with absolutely nothing what so ever.) However I welcome these players playing like this because ABC poker (all I am really capable of) will pay off against them. Whenever I lose a bad river to them I just think well youve allready payed me handsomely and probability dictates that from time to time I must give a small % of it back to you. This way I am putting myself in the position of controll and not fealing like a victim to the faguries of fortune. | ||
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