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Server Time: 11/20/2009 8:24:27 PM PACIFIC |
 ABC play style, Mojo702, 12. May 2003 17:36 | ||
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| Can someone explain what that means? I've read a couple of books and have played some and know I have so much more to learn before becoming a winning poker player, and that poker has alot of "it depends" to its play. However, ABC sounds like there is a sort of systematic way to play. Can you guys expand on that idea? | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, Easy E, 12. May 2003 18:58 | ||
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| It usually refers to someone who plays "by the book," (pick the book you want to use here) where they don't adjust their game at all, make standard plays such as the flop raise for a free card, etc. While against poor opponents, this can often be somewhat successful, experienced players often hunt for and slaughter these predictable players | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, Banning, 12. May 2003 22:32 | ||
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| I am still trying to get ahold of enough books so that I can get a good ABC. I recently went to a bookstore. "Chapters" and looked up a bunch of the books that have been recommended to me and it was out of stock on pretty much all of them. Including the rest of the town's chapters it made me happy. Just wanted to vent a little because whenever I make a poste somebody always ends up recomending some random article of some book that I don't own because the bookstores don't have it. And i will be ordering them through Vegas bookstore thingie so don't even bother recomending that I'm just venting. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, Big_Slick, 13. May 2003 05:58 | ||
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| Try Amazon.com. You get free shipping on orders over $25 and don't have to pay tax depending on your state. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, noiseboy, 13. May 2003 09:18 | ||
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| the cheapest place I've found to order a lot of these books is conjelco.com. They have a really good selection too. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, shorn, 13. May 2003 09:23 | ||
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| You might also try the adds in the back of Card Player Magazine. 2+2 usually runs a full page in every issue. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, Wren, 13. May 2003 10:45 | ||
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| Chapters carries VERY FEW of the more recommended poker books. The ones that are usually there are Zen and the Art of Poker, Poker for Dummies and Thursday Night Poker, all of which I have and all of which are worthwhile purchases. However, the serious player will definitely want to add Sklansky, Jones and co. to his/her bookshelf. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, SendMoney, 12. May 2003 22:49 | ||
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| I'd say an ABC play style is something that a "rock" might employ. Nothing fancy, no check raises, no free card tricks. An ABC player would probably only raise before the flop with a premium hand such as AA KK AKs QQ JJ, and would probably only call raises with similar such strong hands. This player might call with other hands such as pockets pairs down to about 77, and play other "paint" cards like KQo or QJs. ABC play would probably avoid small pairs and small suited connectors, say 78s or less. An ABC player would probably bet out with top pair, and call raises with top pair most of the time. An ABC player would probably only raise or re-raise with top two pair, trips, or a made hand like a straight or flush. ABC player wouldn't want to chase straights and flushes more than they have to but they would be inclined to call bets until they had a made hand instead of raising on the flop from late position setting up the free card play. An ABC player would probably fold on the flop with less than top pair unless they had 8 or more outs at a nut straight or nut flush, although they might draw to a gutshot with 2 overcards, say if they had AK and the flop was 5 10 J. In this situation a Q gives the nut straight and the A and K overcards MIGHT also be live. ABC players don't slow play, and they don't give free cards - like that Rounders line, get your money in when you have the best of it, protect it when you don't. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, Snorbolus, 13. May 2003 07:07 | ||
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| Send Money's post is a pretty good description of what I consider to be ABC play (perehaps very slightly tighter that I would have described, but not by much). It is important to remember that this style of play will get the money almost all of the time. Even against good opponents this should be the core of your playing style IMHO. It is only sometimes that you will get an opportunity to mix things up a little. Knowing when and how to mix it up is what separates the good players from the above average ones. ABC players are above average - make no mistake about that. Snorbolus on 12. May 2003 22:49 SendMoney wrote: > I'd say an ABC play style is something that a "rock" might employ. Nothing fancy, no > check raises, no free card tricks. An ABC player would probably only raise before the > flop with a premium hand such as AA KK AKs QQ JJ, and would probably only call raises > with similar such strong hands. This player might call with other hands such as > pockets pairs down to about 77, and play other "paint" cards like KQo or QJs. ABC > play would probably avoid small pairs and small suited connectors, say 78s or less. > > An ABC player would probably bet out with top pair, and call raises with top pair > most of the time. An ABC player would probably only raise or re-raise with top two > pair, trips, or a made hand like a straight or flush. ABC player wouldn't want to > chase straights and flushes more than they have to but they would be inclined to call > bets until they had a made hand instead of raising on the flop from late position > setting up the free card play. > > An ABC player would probably fold on the flop with less than top pair unless they > had 8 or more outs at a nut straight or nut flush, although they might draw to a > gutshot with 2 overcards, say if they had AK and the flop was 5 10 J. In this > situation a Q gives the nut straight and the A and K overcards MIGHT also be live. > > ABC players don't slow play, and they don't give free cards - like that Rounders > line, get your money in when you have the best of it, protect it when you don't. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, shorn, 13. May 2003 09:28 | ||
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| I agree with you Snorbolus. Good players should begin play at ABC and then deviate where appropriate as this type of play will get the $$ over the long-term. One thing I disagree with Send on is that ABC players or "book" players won't raise the flop with a 4 flush or open-ender to try and set up the free card play. As this strategy is discussed in most good books, this is something they will definitely use. Deviating from ABC play should come only from experience and is highly sotuational (late position mostly). If one can be disciplined and play their ABC game a large majority of the time, one will do very very well. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, noiseboy, 13. May 2003 09:28 | ||
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| The times I've heard it used, it just means to play straightforward. It's the best style to employ against weak opponents who aren't paying enough attention to fall for tricky plays. Basically, the weaker your opponents, the less you need to deceive them with tricky plays. Simply bet your best hands, and they will call you too much, and fold your worst hands. If you are not sure if your hand is best, a check will often get you a free card, which will hopefully improve your hand or if an opponent bets, you can just fold and wait for another better opportunity. ABC doesn't mean particularly tight or particularly loose, it just means straightforward. This style will often get the money at a 1-2, 2-4, or 3-6 table, sometimes even 6-12. You can still play small pairs and small suited connectors ABC, as long as you only play them from around back with several callers and just come in for one bet and fold them unless you flop a good draw. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, shorn, 13. May 2003 09:29 | ||
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| This style can win its fair share at 10-20 and up as well, although you need to throw in a bit more deception at these levels. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, noiseboy, 13. May 2003 11:14 | ||
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| yeah, it doesn't really take that much deception, just enough that people will call you when you are on a real hand. Once in a while I'll raise up front with a suited connector or medium pair, or if I'm in late position, I will often raise with drawing hands when there are lots of callers. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, Mojo702, 13. May 2003 12:01 | ||
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| on 13. May 2003 09:29 shorn wrote: > This style can win its fair share at 10-20 and up as well, although you need to throw in a > bit more deception at these levels. Something I've been wondering...how does your deception work? You rarely see your opponents hand. How do you know if he was bluffing or had a genuine hand, just smaller than yours? You rarely see the cards if he mucks at the end, right? What if you are doing the deception...do you always show your cards to the winner or do you muck? How do your opponents know you've been taking them for a ride? And for that matter, what if you played crap as a bluff, everyone folds or you end up getting them to fold....do you show your cards or muck? How do they KNOW you are deceiving them? | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, shorn, 13. May 2003 12:13 | ||
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| It depends on the situation. I usually start out playing ABC until I get a feel for the table. I then adjust based on situation only. Then, if I notice that people are paying attention to the fact that I am not playing that many hands, I might push a marginal holding from middle position (say AJo) pre-flop. What you hope for mostly is that when you use deception, the deck runs you over so that you not only win the pot, but you get to advertise that you were playing a bit weak. You must remember not to get carried away with this though...as someone else pointed out, once or twice a session is generally enough for opponents who pay attention. One other thing, if the deck is just clobbering you and you are ransacking the table, then take advantage of that too. If you hear someone say, "I just can't beat you tonight", that should sound like him ringing the dinner bell because mentally you already have him beat. As far as whether to show or not, that depends upon the situation. If you are perceived as tight and you take a shot with total garbage and bluff the whole way through and miss, then if you don't show you have lost that $$ for nothing. A little advertising (showing) can go a long way assuming you adjust your play afterwards. | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, 4 POKER, 13. May 2003 12:27 | ||
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| "Very well stated". | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, Snorbolus, 13. May 2003 15:24 | ||
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| > Something I've been wondering...how does your deception work? You rarely see your opponents hand. How do you know if he was bluffing ...... This is a good point to keep in mind. Also that they rarely see yours. Gary Carson once posted on R.G.P that "if you are playing aggresively enough your opponents might think that you are being tricky even when you are not". I try to always bet for value when I have the chance. The best type of deceptive plays are ones that appear to be -EV to others but that are actually +EV. Then you get value from both the deception and from the play itself. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: ABC play style, stdioh, 13. May 2003 13:25 | ||
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| I would call an ABC player somebody who always does what it says in any beginner hold'em book (such as Lee Jones) and never varies from it. ABC players can bluff, but only when it is really obvious that they should. Basically, they are easy to put on a hand and outplay with advanced plays. They tend to think more about their own hands than their opponents' hands and they never consider, "What do I think my opponents think I have." | ||
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