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Server Time: 11/20/2009 5:11:58 PM PACIFIC |
 Omaha Hi Lo, grmpyolmn, 11. May 2003 02:11 | ||
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| I play a lot of Omaha hi at my local card room but when I go on line the only games that are going are Omaha hi lo. What is the big atraction with tis game? I've tryed it a few times and I don't see what's so great about it. | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, Swagman, 11. May 2003 02:25 | ||
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| Its popular becauses it just a fun card game. Lots of people play HI LOW for play money on-line. Reasons people play it for real money because theres alot players that are not very good at it. I personally dont like split pots and i especially dont like getting quartered. | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, 4 POKER, 11. May 2003 21:43 | ||
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| Hi, When I first started to play Omaha high-low, it was about eight years ago, and for several months I thought "this game sucks", I hated splitting the pot with a low hand if I had a full house, because I was only used to playing stud and hold-em. However, the more I got involved with it and the more knowledgeable I became, I started to enjoy the game more and more. I started learning what were the most profitable types of hands to play and I found myself using alot of strategic plays that really work well for this game. (The game can be frustrating at times when you flop the nut-nut draw to both sides of the pot and then miss everything completely, but you have to stick with it) If you stick to really tight play and play real premium hands where all 4 cards work well with each other, your expected earn can be quite high(even if it's a split game). There are many players who enjoy this game but may play too many hands that will either leave them with a "second best hand" way too many of the times, or they might continue to draw to half the pot when the odds are not in their favor- (once the low side gets there, you should be getting the perfect odds to even consider on drawing to only half the pot.) All those things can make it very difficult for a player to earn in this game. When the game is played correctly, you will be surprised on how much money you can actually extract from it. "The key to winning at Omaha is, Play hands where all 4 cards(or at least 3 very strong cards), work very well with each other. And play hands that when you make a high hand on the flop, you have re-draw to an even higher hand or have a shot at drawing to the nuts on the low side as well. (when the flop comes up and you make your hand, because there are so many combinations of hands, because each player is holding onto 4 cards, you should be aware that it is very important to always have another re-draw to an even better hand). And when you chose to only play the real premium starting hands,(where all your cards are working for you), you will give yourself the best possible chance of completing many more hands (hands that make the nuts far more times then if you chose to play a hand that was not as strong). Once I learned how to play this game correctly and became aware of what the real bad trap hands were, and only played real premium starting hands, (which I hate to say took me 6 months to accomplish),I was able to show a really nice profit from it. In fact, to this day, Omaha high-low is my favorite game to play, and it was this game that built up my bankroll when I first started to play for a living. A good thing about Omaha 8 is, when you do play it correctly, it has very little swings(fluctuations) on your bankroll. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, Jav, 12. May 2003 10:12 | ||
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| Do you know of any online sites dedicated to basic Omaha 8 strategy? I could definately use some starting hand advice. I played in several Omaha 8, $5.50, 18 people tournaments at Party Poker this weekend. I had never played Omaha or Omaha 8 before, and I could tell I was way off on strategy for awhile. But I figured I got to play for around an hour for $5, so that's not a bad way to start learning. The funny thing was I always at least made it to the second table, and I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I think you can beat half the field in most of those low limit tournaments just by not playing every hand... Thanks | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, noiseboy, 12. May 2003 10:49 | ||
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| Steve Badgers site playwinningpoker.com has some excellent tips. | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, Jav, 12. May 2003 11:29 | ||
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| That site is good at convincing me that learning to play Omaha8 well can be profitable, but I think I'm a little more clueless than that. I don't think I even have a good feel for what good starting hands are. If you ranked Omaha8 starting hands like the sklansky groups of hold'em hands, for most hands I wouldn't even know what group to put them in... Anyone have any suggestions for good books on Omaha? Thanks | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, 4 POKER, 12. May 2003 12:15 | ||
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| Hi Jay, There is a site called {pokerportal.com} that has so much information on all forms of poker and writer's. When you get to the home page, go to the part where it says "Poker Players" and click on to Steve Badger. He has some good informative material on Omaha. There are also some really good books on the game, one is called "Omaha high-low" by Shane Smith (a good book for the beginner), and the other book is called "High-low Split Poker" by Ray Zee.(This book is for advanced players but I think there's some valuable information that will help you with your starting hand selections and strategic plays). Ray Zee's book is the one that I have found to be the most helpful for playing limit Omaha high-low and Stud eight or better. One thing I'd like to add, short term results can often be very misleading in Omaha high-low,(I can remember winning a lot of sessions when I first started and I know that I wasn't playing the game correctly at all)! I think if you are interested in learning this game and playing it correctly so you can show positive results for the long term, start reading up on it now, "play by the book"and you'll be pleased with your results $$. After you start playing the game for a while and get a really good feel for it, then you will be able to apply more of the strategic plays and things of that nature. You must have patience with this game and have the discipline to release many of your starting hands that might become tempting to play. The best advice I could give you would be to "play really tight and solid pre-flop and you'll be able to complete so many more hands that are "nut hands". (Remember, all of your cards should work well with each other pre-flop; drawing to the Nut Flush and the Nut Straight- you'll be giving yourself a better chance to scoop the whole pot). Good Luck, Jay. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, Jav, 12. May 2003 13:03 | ||
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| Thanks! I think I'm going to hit up some used book stores this week and fill up my bookshelf. | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, Jav, 12. May 2003 13:09 | ||
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| Thanks for the info. One concrete question I have is about having all four cards work together. I've read this several times, but I don't have a good feel for what it means. I know you can only play two of your cards to make the high hand (and two cards for the low hand, though they may be different cards), but I'm not sure what four cards working together means. I mean, let's say you have Ah2h as two of your cards. This has the possibility for a nuts low and a nuts heart flush. If you also had 3h4h this would increase your chances of a nut low, but it would reduce your chances of the nut flush. So I guess it seems like there is a big difference between four cards actually working together, and four cards that just look like they are working together, but might actually hurt you. One thing I seemed to get frequently was trips in my four card hand. This seems like a really bad hand since your chances of filling up are pretty low. Anyway, I'm sure there is a lot I don't grasp yet, and some stuff I probably have totally backwards. I'll check out some of your book suggestions, but if you have any advice that would fit well in this forum I'd love to hear it. Thanks again, Jav | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, Risky Business, 12. May 2003 14:45 | ||
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| Boy, that one really hit home 4P. I wish you would have left out the part of winning early not lasting. I was hoping I had found a natural instinct for Omaha H/L, as I've done really well just jumping into it. I played a tourney last weekend in Vegas and got 19th out of 93. That's my first live O H/L game, let alone tournament. Ok, so 19th isn't in the money, but I paid for the tourney with bounties, so I left feeling very good about my game. on 12. May 2003 13:09 Jav wrote: > Thanks for the info. One concrete question I have is about having all four cards work together. > I've read this several times, but I don't have a good feel for what it means. I know you can only > play two of your cards to make the high hand (and two cards for the low hand, though they may be > different cards), but I'm not sure what four cards working together means. I mean, let's say you > have Ah2h as two of your cards. This has the possibility for a nuts low and a nuts heart flush. If > you also had 3h4h this would increase your chances of a nut low, but it would reduce your chances of > the nut flush. > > So I guess it seems like there is a big difference between four cards actually working together, > and four cards that just look like they are working together, but might actually hurt you. One > thing I seemed to get frequently was trips in my four card hand. This seems like a really bad hand > since your chances of filling up are pretty low. > > Anyway, I'm sure there is a lot I don't grasp yet, and some stuff I probably have totally > backwards. I'll check out some of your book suggestions, but if you have any advice that would fit > well in this forum I'd love to hear it. > > Thanks again, > Jav | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, 4 POKER, 12. May 2003 15:29 | ||
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| You should feel good about that and maybe you do have the natural instincts for Omaha high-low! I just think it's important to approach the game having the complete knowledge and the understanding as to why certain hands play better and will have more value as opposed to some of the other hands that might be classified as trap hands.(It's 'key' to know what hands will be money makers and which ones will be money losers over the long term). Having a good feel for the game is great and that can definitely help, but to go into the game with more know how and by trying to apply some of the strategic plays in Omaha will come better to you by reading books that you can relate to (understand) and by puting in a lot of hours so you can gain the experience. Then you may be able to recognize that there are other important variables to this game as well. When I first started to play Omaha, I needed the help, and I got that by reading books and playing in the game at my local card room(5 days a week) where two of the Omaha players were just about as good as you can get! I always think it's important to improve on what you have learned and to pay close attention to a solid player. Nothing takes the place of experience and for me I guess I can say that I "paid my dues", but in the end...the reward is there. I hope you play many more Omaha tournaments and grow a real liking for this game 'cause it's one that you can earn some good money from! Good luck. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, 4 POKER, 12. May 2003 15:06 | ||
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| Jay, Let me explain the "4 cards working" a little bit so you can get a better understanding as to what it means. Example,{your example to start}> Holding A, 2, 3,4 with all hearts will decrease your chances at making the flush, however this is still a premium hand to draw to because it is absolutely the best "Low Starting hand" there is. This hand doesn't need to be suited(and when I say suited, I'm strictly referring to the ace that should be suited for this discussion) because the strength of its low draw is enough. Is it better for this hand to be suited?, absolutely, there's no question about that, but it is a very good hand to hold regardless. (this holding plays the strongest with many callers in pre-flop; it wants volume) I'm going to give you a few examples of starting hands where all 4 cards work well together and a few others where just 2 and 3 cards work together: >A,2,3,K (double or single suited) are four cards that work perfectly with each other,A2 hearts and K3 of spaids would be a double suited hand. You'll have a chance at making the nut low(and this holding also contains an "extra" wheel card(the 3),that can give you more outs to completing the hand and the extra low card can also prevent you from getting counterfeited. {Wheel=Nut Low}. Holding the K with this hand also gives you the opportunity to making the Nut Straight (10-J-Q-K-A). When this hand is suited, you will be able to make the nut flush as well. And with this type of holding(Premium Hand), you can make the nut low, the nut flush,the nut straight, and with having that many outs with the hand, you can either get 3/4 of the pot i.e.(the nut flush w/nut low) and you also give yourself the opportunities to scoop the whole pot. >A,A,2,3(suited), is another 4 card premium hand which can allow you to scoop the whole pot,i.e. the "nut full house", the wheel and/or the nut low and the nut flush.(this hand plays very well heads up as well because of the strength of holding A-A). >A,2,9,J(suited), is a 3 card starting hand that is also a pretty strong hand, it's just not as powerful as the previous ones mentioned. Yes, you are holding the two nut low cards(A,2), but have no protection to the low if one of those cards should fall on the board. The 9 is almost a useless card and although it can be used in making a straight with the J, you'd be in much better shape if the 9 was either another wheel card(3,4,5), or if it was another high card over a 10. It is a good starting hand and should be played pre-flop just remember though, if an Ace or the Deuce hits the board, you'll have to proceed with caution and you may need to have more back up(re-draw) if this happens.(example, you get counterfeited on the low but are drawing to the nut flush). >A,2,8,9 is a 2 card holding that has strength in drawing to the "Nut Low" but with holding the other two cards, this particular holding is not that strong. Even though the 8 is a low card for High-low, it's still not low enough to make a wheel or a very strong low hand that will hold up well against other opponents.(this hand can be played pre-flop and should be played if the game is passive, but I wouldn't call too much heavy betting with this hand because it's just too vulnerable to counterfeiting itself with not enough solid re-draw). The solid premium hands can be played from any position where as the decent starting hands should be played with a little more caution and should be played for the minimum or one raise, pre-flop.(A,2,8,9). Just as it is in hold-em, Omaha high-low is also a game where your position is very important and if you play your hands according to their strength in the right spot, you'll be giving yourself the best opportunity to earn. >As far as playing trips in your hand, unless you are holding on to A,A,A,2 (which by the way isn't that teriffic either but at least you are drawing to the nut low and if the hand does happen to be suited, then this starting would be ok, not great but, ok. As far as playing any other trips in your hand...Don't.They're awful starting hands, and one of the worst hands to start out with). There are many other starting hands that I could discuss and there's a ton of strategy in playing these hands as well, but I think I gave you a foundation as to what the differences are in your premium hands vs. the strong hands vs. the decent/playable hands. I think when you start reading up on this game you will become more knowledgeable on all accounts.You'll find out what types of hands play better multi-way and which ones play better in heads up play and so many more important variables. (you'll see...there are some good books out there that will make it easier for you to apply what you have learned). The best way to become better is by reading, and a lot of it. And by actually playing the game yourself- you need the experience and you need to put in the hours as well. And Again...Good luck. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, Jav, 13. May 2003 10:52 | ||
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| Thanks! I placed in the money in a low limit omaha 8 tourney last night without ever getting a high hand (except for once, heads up with A's near the end of the tourney). I have a lot to learn, but I'm definately enjoying the game so far. Thanks for all the info. | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, 4 POKER, 13. May 2003 11:21 | ||
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| Hey....That's wonderful, good for you! I'm glad you are enjoying the game; it's a fun game and it's one that you can make a really good earn from as well. Having an edge in Omaha high-low is great and when you start using more of the strategic plays... Even Better! $$$ Just give it time. Have patience and I hope that you can be disciplined enough to not worry about hands that you might have won if you had played them, remember that because it's important, You must play extremely "correctly", (perfect poker) in order to beat this game. It sounds to me like you're on the right track! Congratulations Jay! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, TKarrde, 13. May 2003 13:28 | ||
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| 4Poker - Where did you say a good place to play O8b? UB has been nice but not very good for anything besides hold em. | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, 4 POKER, 13. May 2003 13:36 | ||
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| I play Omaha 8 at Party Poker. They have all limits from 50c-$1.00 to $10-20. There's always several games going and the action is pretty good,too! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Omaha Hi Lo, stdioh, 12. May 2003 09:48 | ||
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| There is a lot more thinking in omaha hi-lo and a lot more math. It is also much more profitable than hi only if you are playing with bad bad poker players because they will constantly chase for half the pot well against odds. Where the game is not good is when your opponents are decent, because they you are getting raked on pots you share and it becomes harder to make decent money at it. | ||
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