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Server Time: 11/20/2009 7:36:26 PM PACIFIC |
 Another Hand, Schuster, 9. May 2003 13:34 | ||
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| I'm playing in a 4 person game (only my third hand in it too) and I'm dealt JJ UTG. I raise, the button folds, and both the blinds fold. The flop is A55 rainbow and the small blind bets out. The big blind calls and I fold. It turns out the small blind was betting the whole way and had junk and the big blind had 77 and ended up winning the hand. I later realized that both of these players were awful. Did I make a mistake in laying down my jacks? Lee | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, shorn, 9. May 2003 13:42 | ||
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| I think you meant to say both blinds called, so I will answer assuming that. I think you made the right play considering a few things. It was your third hand so you didn't have a real clear read on the players there. Secondly, the flop contained an Ace and the SB bet out AFTER he had called your pre-flop raise (i.e., he bet into you after you showed strength). I would have layed down the JJ in that instance too. The only other choice would have been to raise to see where you stand, although this type of play increases your bankroll volatility. Calling would have been the worst choice. | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, 4 POKER, 9. May 2003 13:43 | ||
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| on 9. May 2003 13:34 Schuster wrote: > I'm playing in a 4 person game (only my third hand in it too) and I'm dealt JJ > UTG. I raise, the button folds, and both the blinds fold. The flop is A55 > rainbow and the small blind bets out. The big blind calls and I fold. > > It turns out the small blind was betting the whole way and had junk and the big > blind had 77 and ended up winning the hand. I later realized that both of these > players were awful. Did I make a mistake in laying down my jacks? > > Lee Hmmmm, If you're playing in a 4 person game and the button folds AND both blinds fold, how was there ever a flop? I'm curious, but I think you meant to say "call". I will read your question again and will respond with my opinion based on what I think you were trying to say. But tell me something here, did just the blinds call you preflop or did the button call your raise as well? 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, Schuster, 9. May 2003 14:01 | ||
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| Oops! the Button folded, the blinds both called. | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, 4 POKER, 9. May 2003 14:09 | ||
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| on 9. May 2003 14:01 Schuster wrote: > Oops! the Button folded, the blinds both called. That is what I thought but I was curious if the button called because that would also mean that you would've had someone behind you to worry about as well. ( I still think you made the correct decision because in the long run, the two jacks would show a negative result.) | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, 4 POKER, 9. May 2003 13:55 | ||
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| With both blinds calling, after the small blind bets out and gets an overcall by the big blind, usually,(and I say usually) one of them will be holding an Ace. I would have folded the two jacks as well. (it would be too costly for you to try and outplay both of them in this spot and I think in the long run your results would show up on the (-). Sometimes you throw away the best hand, but when you can make the correct decision based on the previous actions and present ones, you'll have far greater results overall. (a good player sometimes does fold the best hand, don't sweat it, it happens). 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, noiseboy, 9. May 2003 14:00 | ||
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| I think you played it right. If you had known that the guy with the 77s was a maniac who often bets with nothing, the argument can certainly be made for raising; however, since you weren't familiar with your opponent, I think laying it down is right as most "sane" players wouldn't bet 77s into that flop. | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, stdioh, 12. May 2003 09:38 | ||
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| When the board is A55, 77 is not junk. He had 2 pair and was hoping that either nobody had an ace, or that a weak player with an ace would fold it because of a kicker problem. He was playing his 2 pair agressively. I would probably have raised with JJ and if he then reraised I would slow down - possibly folding to that reraise or possibly calling him down, depending on the player. Your preflop raise indicates a very strong hand, so it is even possible that you could fold somebody off a weaker ace ... you holding AK wouldn't be unreasonable. | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, 4 POKER, 12. May 2003 10:30 | ||
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| That sounds like a good play to make however, I honestly think that if the board read A-5-5, if either of those two players held an Ace, they would be calling a raise by the player who held J-J. The player that held the J-J, would have to be perceived as an extremely tight player who wouldn't raise the flop with anything but a better hand(higher Ace); which might than cause them to fold their Ace, but I think other than that, he will be getting called to the river. (even if he wasn't a tight player, how many times, especially in the lower limits, do you think a player will throw away top pair, especially Aces just because they thought their kicker was weak)? I'm not saying that raise doesn't work in different situations, and against certain types of players,(it does work sometimes) but overall, and for long term results, I think the two jacks would show a negative result. (but I do agree that 7-7 is not junk and that is not a bad call on his part on the flop. But, if the two sevens were to get raised by either one of those two players his hand should be released as well. Whether someone who's holding J-J or 7-7, if one other opponent is holding an Ace, both hands would be drawing to hit a 2 outer). 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Another Hand, noiseboy, 12. May 2003 10:58 | ||
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| Hmm, I guess short handed, you might be right about that. I've been playing a lot in these loose games where people play A-rag like it was pocket AA's. So when that A falls, I usually just have to accept that my JJ's are dogmeat. However, short handed, you cant just assume that somebody has something and that you are beat. | ||
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